Expansion Pak - A Remember 64 Clip Show

Welcome.
It's so good to see you.

Welcome.
Welcome.

Welcome.
He's the warrior of the star.

He's the Warrior of the Star.
Wait, who is this gracing this wonderful podcast?
Star Warrior.

Donkey Kong, what Dave is trying
to say.

Yes, what am I trying to say?
He wants to be the very best.

I want to be the very best like.
No one ever was.

Like no podcast that there ever
was.

That this was this was
originally similar to what

Virtual Cop was, which was which
is constantly brought up in the development that this was an on
rails shooter at first, which I had no idea.
I guess it makes sense based on technology and time and
everything, but like I I just can't even imagine that being
this game or even a game like that on the 64 at that time.
It feels like it was like that for so long in development too,
which is so crazy to me.

Totally.
Yeah, It was really, this was the one thing about the
development process that I got really mixed answers from the
guys about.

They really had trouble
remembering when it came off the rails.
Some of them said we always wanted to put it off the rails
and others said, you know, we didn't decide for sure that
we're gonna take it off the rails until after Super Mario 64
came out and we saw how fun and open world was on the N64.
I mean, part of the problem is they didn't have an N64 for the
vast majority of the development process.
They didn't have the controller.

They didn't know it was
possible.

They didn't know what the
console was really be able to do.
Yeah, they were so committed to the Virtual Cop model that they
would go to the arcade and bring big bags of coins and sort of
sit there and feed the machine coins and and really learn
Virtual Cop.

One of the the first artists
hired on the game, Carl Hilton, was giving some advice to his
friend Brett Jones when Brett was applying to be the next the
second artist on the game.

And Brett Jones had never played
a video game before.

He was a a real talented artist
and he knew a lot about James

Bond.
He was a huge James Bonder, but he didn't play video games.
So Carl Hilton told him, listen, in your interview, just make
sure you talk a lot about Virtua

Cop.
It's really important to Martin and Brett did and the job.
So yeah, yeah, there's, there's,

I mean, I mentioned this in the
book, but there's, there's footage of it on the rail still
all the way up through, I mean like within maybe 6 to 9 months
of it coming out.

Yeah, I think I wrote down that
it was it was still last minute.

It was E 396.
It's you wrote in the book that that it was still technically on
rails.

And that's when Mario 64 and
Goldeneye were shown.

And it's like that's.
It's just crazy.

I don't.
And there's still, there's still, there's still definitely
levels that show that influence rights.
Like the train level really feels like a rails level.
It's very linear.

You know, you're, you're just
shooting guys as they pop out.

But the fact that then you can
also have levels you get lost in, you know, maze like levels
or, or levels where you can really have a different strategy
approach depending on I mean, it just it, it made the game, the
fact that it's open world.

And so, yeah, huge, huge
decision.

Yeah, I I can't believe that.
I can't believe it.

I just can't.
I it blows my mind.

Sorry.
What what blows my mind is the fact that they didn't have a dev
kit.

They didn't have any.
I remember reading that.

I'm like nothing, Like no,
nothing.

How do you design something for
something you have no idea how

It's like, I know.
That's wild.

Yeah, it's it's, it's wild.
And it definitely led to a lot of challenges in their process,
whether it was the the musicians trying at the last minute to,
you know, basically they were, they were told the N64 could do
a lot more than it ended up being able to do.
So that meant the artists were screwed on, you know, the, the
size of some of their images and files.
They do a lot of work compressing and cutting and, and
shrinking things.

Same thing with the musicians.
And I do think that, you know, the, the thing about the N64
controller is that, you know, it's, I guess, like according to
legend, the controller was really designed for Mario 64.
It's, it's a controller that plays really well for that game.
But then the golden eye guys, you know, it's, it's a
horrendously sort of horrible controller for a first person
shooter.

However, if you play with one
controller in each hand and and you know you you have one
control stick for Amy and one for movie and it technically is
the first dual analog control stick.
Shooter, right, which is also I

I honestly, I don't know how how
long have have we have, you know, nerds like me or us been
on the Internet?

I did not know that was a thing
until I think less than a year ago.
I had no idea.

Solo crazy so awkward and I I I
feel like now that the game has been re released for Xbox and
switch, which it wasn't at the time that my book came out there
were rumors about it right, but it hadn't happened now you know
I don't know about you guys if you've played it on on those
consoles, but I cannot get used to it.
I cannot get used to doing old night with dual analog.
I kind.

Of have yeah, I have my Xbox
controller still sitting beside me 'cause I just I opened it
back up and played like the 1st 2:00.
Stages together.

Cool, cool, cool.
How did it go?

So I, so I have, I have the
cartridge, I have a switch and I have it on, on Xbox 'cause I
have game pass.

So I, I dabbled in all of them,
but I think I'm just too tailored to playing with dual,
dual sticks now.

So yeah, so I, I think, you
know, I'm, I'm kind of the, the,

I'm talking about this game
that's 25 plus years old and yet here I am playing it with an
Xbox and an Xbox controller.

I, I think for me, I just my
mind now works where I have a separate joystick to constantly
look around as opposed to, you know, not relying on auto aim.
But auto aim is obviously something that is, that is big
in, in, in the original and, and on the switch as well.
It works almost exactly the same.
And having to press R and look around and stuff is, is fine
'cause you don't always have to do it.
But I found I was like, looking like I was doing this and I was
walking in weird directions and stuff.
Which is cooler?

Yeah, it's, it's it just feels a
little bit awkward.

And I don't know if that's
because it's what it always was, but I don't remember it feeling
that way.

But it's interesting because me
and Jiggy just played Jet Force

Gemini, and it works almost
exactly the same, except that's technically third person.
You know when you have to kill all of the all the enemies in
order to unlock a door there?

The door wasn't unlocked, but I
couldn't see an enemy anywhere.

But I could hear one every once
in a while.

And every once in a while, the
little red indicator on the left or the right of my screen would
go off to tell you that one was like around the corner or just
out of sight or whatever.

And then I would throw a grenade
at like, the corner of the wall where that sound was kind of
coming from.

And then I would just see the
green blood come out and it would die, and then the door
would open.

So that happened a couple of
times, Yeah.

So it just got stuck in the
wall.

Yeah, so it spawned into the
wall.

It wasn't shooting at me, which
is interesting.

It's not like it was, you know,
seen through the wall.

It just, and I couldn't see it.
It's not like I could see the antenna or its foot or its gun
sticking out of the wall.

I could just hear it and see the
indicators and that's it.

And because, and the guns
wouldn't do anything because the wall was in the way.
So I used grenades in order to get an explosion, and one or two
grenades later I was like, OK, the door's unlocked like.
Yeah, that's pretty wild.

Yeah, nothing like that happens
on the 64, at least not to me.

But I will say it was kind of
annoying when you do kill all the enemies and then one is like
laying on the ground just.

Oh, spasming.
Yeah.

Then there's just, there's just,
it's just a matter of time before they just perish.
But for some reason they add that detail and they sit there
for like 10 seconds and you're like, why isn't this door
opening?

And then you turn around, see it
on the ground, and then it starts to disappear and you're
like, oh, OK.

And then the door opens.
You hear the flies buzzing.

That's how you know that that's
on the ground.

Yeah.
Which Which is like another one of those details of the game
that is like extra gruesome in a game that is sort of sort of
light hearted and sort of like not family friendly, but sort of
like geared towards maybe slightly gamers, but also not.
And I'm just like, is this game supposed to be violent or is it
not Like I don't like I know they're just bugs, but.
But at the same time, at the same time they give you guns
that can like explode things like giant rockets and these
bugs, they explode and there's blood everywhere.
There's like bug blood everywhere.
And it's clearly like trying to push push that rating.
It's it's teen, right?

I think it's teen.
I don't have it right in.

Front of me it is.
Yeah.

Yeah, it is, Yeah.
Which which makes sense.

That's totally fine.
There's nothing wrong with that, right?
I think that makes sense.

But it's.
But like those, those weapons, the gruesome stuff, the sort of
like, and like when you have like a bunch of enemies that
say, throw a grenade and it's just like, I'm overwhelmed.
I got to throw something.

And even if they don't die, the
blood splatter is just like.

It's like it's all everywhere.
It's.

Everywhere, the sound effect
doesn't stop.

Like it's just all these
details.

Yeah, it's green.
They're bugs, like I said, but there's something about that
that feels this like, yeah, this mix of attitude and mix of tone
that this game, I don't know.

I don't know what kind of
balance they're going for here.

Like I've seen a couple of like
clips and interviews and you know, things like that from even
like 15 years ago when people were talking about this game and
it was only 10 years old and being like, yeah, we wanted to
strike this balance and stuff.

And I, I don't know if they
struck the balance or if they should have just gone to the
full teen or mature side or should have just dumbed it down
to be a little bit more child friendly.
So I it's stuck somewhere in between.
I think playing it is totally fine for the way that works.
But that balance I think was a little bit off depending on what
mission and what area you were in and and what weapons you were
using.

I think that's also mattered.
Yeah.

And so getting getting into it,
we're kind of we're kind of like crossing the line of the game
play, yeah.

Yeah.
Oh yeah, let's do it.

So so the game play, it's kind
of I'm not, I'm not it's not bad, but it's not great either.
It's kind of it's kind of in between and I don't know, again,
I don't know what it is on the rare replay.
Like if you can, you use twin sticks.
Is that like?

No, So what happens is, and I
wrote yeah, so it so that, so that's one of the reasons why
we'll we'll get to this, you know, eventually, like we're
gonna, we're gonna be playing

Golden Eye on here 'cause
obviously we are.

Yeah.
That the version of that on the

Xbox, not on the Switch, but on
the Xbox is twin sticks.

It's is is modern controls and
it's great and it feels great.

The game is the same game, but
it plays even better.

Chika, do you have experience
with this game or doom in general?
Do you have a history with with doom?
Nope, really.

Oh, you know what you know what
it is is.

I think it's the age difference.
I feel like that's probably what it is.
I don't know how how old Matt is, but I this is a game that I
definitely was not allowed to play when I was a kid, right so.
Right, fair enough.

So is this.
I will, I will, I will go even further than this like conquer.
Maybe if I pushed hard enough, I could have gotten them to like,
like that was that was teetering the line 'cause it was like it
was rated M.

But the, the box art so cute.
You know, Doom, my mom will be like, we're going to church for
just looking at that box art, you know?
And so is this your first Doom game ever play you've ever
played?

No, I did play the not eternal
the one before Eternal.

Doom, 2016.
Yeah, the the, yeah, I did play that one, not all the way
through, but I did play it.

Nice, so you the as far as the
old school dooms, the sort of OG dooms go, this is it.
Damn, that's.

I've always seen it.
I've just been like, oh, why would I play this when I have
what I have now?

I mean that that's, that's fair
to in a, in a number of franchises, I would say, you
know, I, I kind of, I kind of understand that.
I I.

I would I would play it if I had
it easily accessible.

I'm just not going out of my way
to to go play it.

Right, which is one of the
things that Matt was mentioning is the fact that there was this
particular version of Doom was not accessible really at all for
what 15 years or something, you know, at least, if not more like
almost 20.

The original Doom has been
available on everything, including tractors.
So like, you know, you could do what everything, right?
So this this has not been played on a John Deere.
So I'm not sure if that makes it elite level yet or not, but but
it's close.

It's close so.
I still play plenty of platformers today so I'm still
thinking I would love the experience as much.
Well, it depends.

There are some things about it
that I'm like, I don't know if I can handle it anymore because
that game, there was some challenges with it for sure.
What?

What stuff stands out or what
stuff do you remember like that?

What?
What?

So, so the game.
So I don't know if you you haven't beaten the game yet,
but.

I did.
I did finish it.

Oh, you.
Did I did?

Yeah, I did it, Yeah.
OK awesome.

So there's there's these gems
you have to collect and in each stage there's gold gems and
they're either hidden or whatnot very well.
They're harder to get, yeah.

They're so much harder to get,
but with the bosses, you have to defeat the bosses without
getting hit.

And that part really, I don't
know if I have the patience anymore when I'm like 13 years
old.

Yeah, I had the patience, I had
the skills, I had the reflexes to dodge missiles and whatever
they're thrown at me.

And let's be honest, you had the
time.

The time and the time too.
So, you know, that part really is not the most appealing to me.
I used to be more of a completionist and now that I'm a
lot older, it's you know what, let me just get through the
game.

But also a part of the game is
you have to get all of the gold, the gold gems in order to see
the complete ending of the game.

And so that would bug me so much
that I would get all these gems and I'm missing one.
And I don't know what happens at the end, right?
I do know what happens at the end, but I'm just saying like as
a a, an adult, like it'd be nice to see.
Yeah, so, and so I, I completed it and I was going through the
game not knowing this whole gem situation.
I didn't so for me, 'cause OK, so here's the other thing about,
about doing shows like this and, and playing games, you know,
either through emulation or on just a cartridge and stuff.
I, I, I'm sure I could go and find the manual of this game
online and flip through it and it would tell me, it would give
me some information, but I, I tend to forget or I don't do it
'cause I'm just like, I'm just,

I'm just gonna jump into the
game and just experience it, you know, sort of like, hey, I'm,
yeah, like I'm renting this game from Blockbuster and I'm just
gonna play it for the week.

That's kind of how I approach
some of these, especially if it's like a single player
platformer like this.

I'm sitting there going, how
complicated?

Good.
This, I got this, I got it right.
So that's, yeah, sure, at least.

So I told myself and, and that's
what I did with this.

I was like, you know what, it'll
be fine.

I'll, I'll figure it out.
I kind of remember playing this at a friend's place.
I think I told you earlier that like, you know, one of our
friends, family friends, she had a 64 and she was the only
person.

This, this is the same person.
If if anyone listens to the

Yoshi's Story episode, it's the
same person that had Yoshi's

Story and this game and she has.
Phenomenal tastes.

Right.
And and it was it's, but it's the only, it's the only person I
knew that had those games outside of the typical Mario
Kart and Zelda.

And like, those were sort of
like her her side games or whatever you want to call them,
like sort of like next tier down or whatever.
Anyways, I play them at the same household and that's the only
experience I have with this game.
And I was like, OK, I kind of remember these early levels.
Like I remember the shake, shake.
Of course.

Like, how could you not?
Yeah, how could you not?

Times throughout the game,
right?

Exactly.
So like all those things, I was like, OK, I, I, I got this and,
and I, I went into it and I found a couple of those gold
gems and I, you know, picked them up and like, oh, it's
giving me a bunch of health.

Great, cool.
They're sort of like getting 50 coins at once or something.
That's kind of how it feels, right?
Exactly.

Yeah.
Did I know that it had anything to do with the ending or the
bosses or Nope, I had no.

Did I know that it was counting
how many I had?

I had no idea.
I didn't know there was like a an overall tally.
I was just like, sure, I got two of them on this stage.
Great cool.

I found it so when I and then
the bosses like no chance I'm going without getting hit.
Like no, no way, right?

Exactly, that was like top tier
get good gaming back then, like

I'm not and I did it and it was
like one of the achievements of my damn life.
I got all the gems in this game.

I know the ending.
I thought you knew the ending 'cause you looked it up, I said.
No, this is a personal experience.
Oh my God.

Team Funko was really good at
this.

I mean, it took blood, sweat and
tears, a lot of tears, but I got it.
But if I were to do it now, no way.
You know, I I really like the ones.
Where Where's the one here?

I'm trying to find it.
I think it is.

I gotta, I gotta find it.
If you have one, go for it.

I'm gonna find the name of the
one.

That I have two.
I have two.

That I feel like I.
Mean we we can pick a top three if you want.
We can pick a top three if you want, OK?
OK, I do have a top three.

I do have a top three.
And so number one for me I think is crazy cutters, which is where
you ride the little jackhammer and you do the out.
I'm doing the motion and you do the outline.
I love I.

Love what?
Everyone can hear it but they can't.
Like if they're not watching, they can't see it.
I'm watching I.

Understand, yeah, you, you cut
the outline of a character, usually an enemy like a Boo or
something, and just whoever gets like the best stencil wins.
And I've just always really enjoyed that.
It's fun #2 I don't know what it's called, but it's, it's a
Bowser face and it makes a weird face and contorts.
And then you have to try and like Mario 64, like that opening
with the Mario face.

How you adjust the the segments
and areas of his face.

You have to do that and make it
stick and just make it morph into the contorted face in the
middle of the screen.

That one's also a lot of fun.
And then the third one could probably flip around a little
bit.

But the one that came to mind
was there's a there's a skateboard one in the I know
it's in the first one for sure.

And you like ride the skate the
end and you have to like keep keep speeding up and jumping
over.

Blocks and stuff.
Yeah, escape from the lava.

I'm looking at the one right now
that might be in the second one, but I know what's exactly what
I'm.

Positive.
It's in the first.

One in the first OK.
Yeah.

It's like, it's like ramp, like
ramp something or.

Oh, platform peril.
Here you go.

That's what it is.
It's cool.

Yeah, that is a good one.
Oh no, that's not with the skateboard.
That's just jumping.

No, a platform is jumping.
Yeah, it's like the sky.

It's a skateboard.
I'm gonna look it up right now because.
OK, so while you do that, I will, I'll tell you what mine
is.

My favorite is the one that you
mentioned.

It's called facelift.
It's the one where you basically contort the face of the picture.
Yeah, that's cool one.

It's fun because at this point
almost everybody played Mario 64 and spent like an hour just
messing with Mario's face.

So that's basically what this
is.

It also adds a lot of
variability because you you can be pretty far off or think
you've got it, but someone just has that slight percentage sort
of advantage to you.

So I like this one.
It's not super stressful, but it also takes some skill for sure.
So I like that we played in

Mario Party 3, we played this
the rock and Raceway, the the horses.
We rock back and forth and you're kind of going around the
track or whatever.

Yeah, that one's up there for
me.

I really like it.
Yeah, I really like it.

I, I like, I like the the fact
that you have to manage your

ABAB and your energy and stuff
before you spin out.

And I kind of like the fact that
everyone's, you know, I just, I like the aesthetic of it and
stuff.

There's that.
Well.

You beat me in that every single
time so.

Maybe that's what it is.
Yeah.

And then we have another shared
one, the crazy cutter one is great.
The sort of tracing around it, it's so simple, but it's it's a
lot of fun.

And again, it's it's similar to
the facelift 1 where you could feel like, oh, I got this, 100%,
I got this.

But that tiny little extra
Polygon or pixel that you may have missed could make the
difference between that and I think that is great.
And the fact that Mario Party won.
And I think a couple of these are also in two.
The fact that that is in the first game, those two games that
we both share between those two shows that the simplicity of the
first one and the ideas that they came up with just on the
first one and kind of dropped a couple games later are actually
pretty damn good.

And that I, I think that's,
that's impressive.

I find that pretty impressive.
I, I, I enjoy that.

And then there's the boss check
and then you have the construction yard, then you have
an alleyway, then you fight the slime and then you finally make
it to AL's toy barn and it's a real it.
I just like how there's like this what could have just been
like this non like cohesive level structure turns out to be
really well structured and also visually really interesting.
That extra extra thing is fucking awesome.
Yeah, it is.

It is so I so I'm currently like
this lined up so perfectly, like unintentionally.
But on my YouTube channel I'm currently doing, I do a series
called analyzing everything where I like look at every
aspect of a game.

I'm looking at the graphics, the
music, the sound effects, everything and that I'm
currently playing through Toy

Story 2.
So I just lined up with this podcast and I'm just like that
Etch A sketch menu is so creative, It's so unique and
it's one of the best level select menus of any game I've
ever seen because it's just so and it's it's interesting
because it's a license from

Hasbro, right?
Because there's that weird

Disney Pixar, Hasbro toys
connection.

And like some of the characters
in the game are actual like

Hasbro toys and things like
that.

So just that that connection and
the liberty to use the actual like Etch A sketch, like I think
it's a one off.

I think it's the only time
you're ever going to see that kind of a menu, and it was so
unique and just really cool.

Yeah, it it's, it's a great way
because with such a large cast of characters in Toy Story, like
it's that Bugs Life, like especially a lot of these, I
mean, most, most Pixar movies are kind of like that,
especially like Cars and things like that.
Later on, you know, if you make a game or, or another TV show or
something other another medium outside of the movie, you want
to kind of bring these characters in any way you can.
You know, Rex is used as sort of like a hint guy or whatever.
OK, wait, wait, we just need to say how annoying he is.
He's in the yeah.

Like you're like, Oh my gosh.
Doesn't stop time.

Yeah, if you're in his
proximity, he will not shut the fuck up.
It's all this screaming bars over here bars.
I love him, though.

I love Rex I I like Rex 'cause
he's this endearing character, but he can go die in a ditch in
this game I.

He doesn't shut up me.
He doesn't stop I I like all the other characters do that too.
It's not just him, but his voice like it.
Like if you.

His voice stands out above the
din of.

Yes, it does.
It really does.

Everything else, it doesn't it,
it feels a lot clunkier than your average fighting game,
which is not something that you want in a fighting game.
And it's pretty.

I don't think it runs very well
either.

It's pretty.
It's pretty clunky.

Like it it it is like it does.
It honestly does feel like there's pieces of clay moving.
Like.

Like they're, they're a little
sticky, you know, they'll stick to the ground a little bit too
much.

Like I don't, I doubt that's
intentional, but probably not.

But maybe it's so it's
interesting because I played mostly Sculptor's Cut just
because it's the one that I had loaded up for the most part and
whatever I played that it's interesting that you say that
for 63 and a third.

Like as much as the combo system
and the fighting seems to is probably better there because it
has that killer instinct combo system.
But you still felt like it was kind of chunky a bit.
Sculptor's Cut is very chunky.

It's so weird 'cause the changes
that they made, they're like, oh, we made a killer instinct
like game.

Let's take that away and make a
Street Fighter like game so we don't have the same type of
combos and stuff.

And Street Fighter's just
faster, smoother, snappier.

So sculptor's cut well, and, and
also the like the camera is different.
So like in the sculptor's cut, like you're showing right now,
like it's, it's that more zoomed out Street Fighter look, whereas
in 60 and a third is a little bit more zoomed in kind of
closer, like killer instinct where you don't see as much of
the arena.

And it's, you know, I mean, it
also even is like semi 3D at times cause the it'll rotate
like when you're fighting and it'll kind of move like this and
you'll get different angles of stuff.
Yeah yeah, kind of like some of the rooms kind of have some
corners you go around or whatever.
Yeah.

Some of the rooms, the places
have like transitional things right where you like hit, hit
the enemy, they go flying through the wall, they go flying
through the doorway.

And I actually, normally I would
love those, but in this game I disliked those.
Oh, how come?

Because they were like you.
You would hit it, you'd bounce into the other room.
It would like stop the gameplay for a second to do that, and
then you'd be on the other side.

You could accidentally hit them
back and keep them in the cycle of going through the doorway.
This happened to me.

This legitimately happened to me
in the in the Laffy laffy taffy guy, whatever he is.
Yeah, in that like, candy factory in that room.
I was fighting the clown guy and

I like punched him and he went
through the door and fell.

And then I was on the other
side.

I punched him again, he went
through the door and fell.

I did it like three times in a
row.

And I was like, I stopped
fighting and backed away so I could get out of that corner so
I would be able to continue the fight.
Well, it just, it looks like, it looks like the sculptor's cut
has some of that, a little bit of that 3D camera 'cause it
looks like even in this arena, like you're kind of going around
it, even though it's still trying to stay two-dimensional.
It kind of goes like that.

It's a little bit less so than
the original, but it's still pretty similar.
It's still there.

You're still technically
fighting on a 2D plane, but the camera kind of just like swerves
in a circle is kind of what it is.
They still have the transition things.
And part of the problem jiggy with like the transition stuff
like in other fighting games, it's like, OK, that's cool
because it does extra damage or now you're in a new area and you
can do new things and but it doesn't really do anything in
this.

And the problem is too, if you
knock someone through a door, for example, or through a wall
or something like that, and you keep knocking them back and
forth like you said you were doing, you're gonna do like no
damage.

It's not a significant move.
It yeah, it sucked.

It actually kind of sucks.
Yeah.

But I will say that my guy
didn't have as much cutting action as yours seem to.
I was I was definitely like a blunt force kind of a thing.
I did like an AAII want to say

AAB, like I did that combo lot
or ABA and he did like this like sweeping kick kind of a deal
that could potentially like knock them off their feet.
But it was it was like my strategy for this game was
especially when I see those Big

Blue ogre looking guys, I just
ran in and I just tap the buttons and I would like pin
them to a wall and just keep going.
And then whenever I felt like,

OK, that's enough and I would
stop.

They would still be moving and
be fine.

And I'm like, Oh my gosh.
And so I just basically just had a rule.
I'm like I just have to lay the hammer on for like 30 seconds
straight and just hope they die.

Yeah, well, what's interesting,
so those Big Blue guys are, are like one of the first enemies
that you see, Like I, I mentioned off the top of my like
sort of goofy comment at the top, it was like this giant Blue
Man Group.

Like it's just this giant hulky
and looking thing that is just blue.
And I don't know what the hell any like, unless it's a zombie.
I don't know what the hell any of these things are supposed to
be.

And that's right.
Doesn't really matter.

Don't you don't have to explain
it.

They're monsters.
This Crowley or Crowley guy is,

I don't know, launching monsters
across London because evil person.
And those things are funny because they take so long to
take down.

Sometimes I like, I would be
hammering away at this enemy for so long, and the only way that I
knew that I defeated it was because my adrenaline meter,
that blue bar on the other side, went up a notch.
That's the only way I knew that

I killed it.
Yeah.

Oh, here's a question for you.
How did you fare against?

Because the bane of my existence
was actually the aerial based enemies like gargoyles and
things with wings that move fast because you get into a fight and
they'd like, jump around, right.

So you're almost in like this
little zone.

Think of it like in Zelda
Ocarina of Time when you lock onto an enemy, except you don't
control when you lock onto an enemy, it does it automatically.
Or what the camera does for the most part.
Or yeah, the camera does, but like the enemy will be hopping
around you and you'll be trying to attack and you'll be hitting
forward, they'll move behind you.
It makes it very easy for them to dodge.
And even worse when you get into an area with multiple enemies
and they're attacking like I'm the type of person I'm locking
onto an enemy, I'm ignoring everyone else, I'm going to
defeat that enemy, then move on to the next one, you know, and
this was like this.

It did not allow you to do that.
They would get in, they you'd just be missing that person and
then another enemy would hit you.
And that, I feel is just a reflection of the way they chose
to do the gameplay.

So it's it's very the best way
to describe how the camera works.
If you've ever played Croc, this is exactly what it's like.
It's.

Oh, is it?
Kind of it's locked behind you and you move the joystick, you
move left and right and it's it's stays behind you sort of,
but it also mostly.

Mostly, yeah, but not.
Always mostly, but it tries to account for enemies on screen
and stuff so sometimes it gets a little wonky and pulls back.
I would say it definitely was hard at first, but it gets
easier as you get used to it.

It's it's kind of that situation
you need to play through a few levels and it gets a little, it
gets easier.

You know, it's still not ideal.
And This is why I was saying earlier, why did they throw
attacks into the C buttons?

Because you don't use the C
buttons really, other than you can jump with them.
But you could have easily put the jump button on anything
else.

I mean.
Like.

I mean, it's I don't.
Know like even just.

Limit it to the down C button as
a jump or something, I don't.

Yeah, yeah.
The positioning of the C buttons doesn't make sense.
Why is down which the jump?

Maybe you don't use a ton, but
somehow it felt like it was more intuitive for down C to be the
jump button and yet it is left C and I don't understand that.
Yeah, I like, I don't.

So it found.
It didn't feel right.

I, I won't, it didn't feel
right.

The jump isn't really like for
those expecting that it's a platformer that you're jumping,
it's not.

It's kind of like.
It's a hop.

I'm trying to.
It's a little hop.

You know how in Zelda you hop
over a gap and it automatically does it for you and you just
kind of it's not a jump per SE, so much as you're skipping?
That's basically what it is.

You're not jumping.
You have, you have momentum, you move forward, you're always
moving forward and it's left C button.
It it doesn't.

It's not the worst thing I've
ever felt, but it certainly could have been better and
thought out a little more.

I would have loved to see the
down C button being the jump.

OK.
And then using the left and right C buttons to change the
camera angle, because this game kind of desperately needs that
ability.

Yeah, because it's I, I'm the
type of person where on these, on any sort of third person
action game that isn't a shooter where you're pretty much always
behind your character because the reticle and all that kind of
stuff, I'm the person who always wants the camera or for the most
part, unless it's a certain traversal element, wants the
camera behind my character.

So in some ways I was OK with
this.

Like some people are OK with,
oh, every once in a while I'll just sort of, you know, be fine
if I'm to the left or the right or whatever.
And I just pretty much just always want it that way.
Like even in racing games, I'm not playing first person, I'm
playing behind, you know, I want to play a third person version
of my vehicle, one, so I can see my vehicle.
And two, I just, I don't know, it just feels more like a video
game that way.

I think you get give it a
Dynasty Warriors treatment.

Let's just have tons of enemies
running at you at the same time.

Oh.
Shit.

OK, let's give Superman all his
powers accessible at all times.

There's no, there's no limit.
I I don't know why they would ever do that.
That was dumb.

But if you treated it like, you
know, like a Dynasty Warriors, like hack and slash, just like
every level and he gave you plenty of space to to work
right, I think that would be a lot cooler.
Yeah, like you said that you had a lot of fun with like the
practice mode because it was more sandbox like and when you
mentioned that that Xbox game that that sounds like a great
idea to me.

Superman is definitely something
that would work better in a wide open space.
Why is he flying through under underwater tunnels?
It doesn't doesn't jive with me.

But if it's open sandbox and
you're just dozens of mooks coming at you like mobs,
henchman, that makes sense.

Cause the enemies in this, I
don't wanna say damage sponges, but they take a few hits and
again, you're Superman.

Why do they take more than one
punch, right?

It doesn't make a lot of sense.
The, the, it was on the footage that you had Dave, but there's a
scene in like the first part where you go and there's like 4
enemies lined up and you just stop.
And 1st off, Superman's like punching animation is just
silly.

He's just like uppercut like.
Also his run.

His run is hilarious.
His body doesn't move, just his arms, all arms.
Yeah.

Looks looks like a like a, a
mole Walker.

That's what he looks like.
Like it's.

Just a great.
Posture.

Great posture though.
Great posture a.

Nutcracker.
A Nutcracker.

That's it.
Yeah, Yeah.

But yeah, you're.
But you punch him, right?

And they're animated hilariously
when you punch them, they're like, yeah, like fly off the
screen.

And it's so satisfying to just
go down a line of them and just punch, punch, punch, punch.
They're one shots.

They go flying.
That's what Superman is.

That's what it should be.
Or, or you fly into them and just knock them all down like
they're like they're bowling pins.
Like, yeah, that's what it should be.
Yeah.

That'd be so much fun.
It doesn't, you know now obviously they.
Fly them up in the sky and just drop.
Them.

Oh my God, that'd be great.
Be great.

There's the one stage where you
have to fight dark side.

I think it's dark.
Yeah, it's dark side.

And you, you go, you have a
small skirmish with him.

You punch me a few times.
He he falls flat on his back, which does not make sense, but
then you're picking him up above your arms and you're walking
down the hallways.

I think you're supposed to take
him to a cop car.

I think it is to get him
arrested, which this is like this is like one of the new
gods, one of those powerful super villains in their mythos.
And you're picking him up over your shoulder, getting stuck on
the ceiling 'cause you know,

Superman 64 geometry and he's
getting arrested by the cops.

This this is the the battle.
This is what's in Lex's simulation.
Like that's the other thing is this is all so so the ring
thing, all of this stuff that's happening is supposed to be a
simulation.

It's.
All a game.

It's all it's literally all a
game.

Do you want to play a game like
it's just it's what it is.

No, I definitely do not.
This is the is this the dark seed level?
No, it's not.

Hold on.
I'm trying to change it over so we can see it, but it's it's
like, Oh my God, it's moving so clunky.
What is this person playing this thing on?
So this is the stage where there's destructible walls.
And if you're in the area of those, the frame rate tanks,
like it's a cool concept, destructible walls that they
ruin the frame rate.

And right.
One of those things where I wish they could have performed it
better.

Yeah.
Like that's these, these, these, the shadow figures.
The shadow hench men.

They look like like just a
punch.

Hey, there goes the wall.
Oh, wait.

There he goes.
Look.

Look at the physics.
Look at those physics.

Oh, I love it.
Oh man, I am insanely disappointed the sound is not
working.

Well, you know what?
The sound is really great and instead what I'm going to do is
I'm going to insert the music right here,
guys.

Wasn't that beautiful?
Wow, it was.

So.
Beautiful.

You heard it.
It was great.

It was so.
Great.

I really love the the really
stupid ones that I love are the the third and fourth goal ones
for like when you finish a race in like third or fourth place,
they're so they're so chill and then like they're just so, so
good.

Like so it's so funny because
the guy that's commenting is like, oh, you're in second,
you're in, you're 10 seconds behind, you're 4th, you're 3
seconds ahead or whatever.

And then when you come in like
third or fourth, he just goes try harder or he's not even
close.

Oh, too bad.
All right.

Like he like insults you.
He just goes from being like you said, he goes from being like
kind of friendly and like encouraging to what the hell is
wrong with you.

Race better essentially.
OK, OK, OK, OK, OK.

Going zipping through checkpoint
after checkpoint on the fortress place.
Dude Oh my God.

Oh yeah, that's.
Right.

OK, OK, You let everybody die.
Max Power.

Yeah, also then let you hear the
engine Rev too.

Just.
Yeah, dude.

Feel it.
You feel the power.

It's, it's, it's definitely, I
think it definitely enhances the, the game though, Like I, I
do think that the, I do think that the, the music and the
sound effects and stuff are, are pretty good.
I do appreciate that, that they, they kind of made sure that that
was a good solid part of the game.
You know, it's not, it's not this massive soundtrack.
It's not like you have a million different sounds or whatever,
but like they could have easily just done wave noises and the,
the engines very basic and then just called it a day 'cause
that's kind of what a lot of stuff at that time was doing
anyways, right.

So.
Yeah, you could have licenses that like holy shit, licensed it
out and made like all, all Rob

Zombie all the time on this
fucker like they did with

Twisted Metal four or some shit
Instead.

Yeah, Nintendo was like, no
dude, they fucking with the sick fucking soundtrack for this and
even like Blue Storm, but they they did a really, really
fucking awesome job on on these games in the soundtrack.
Like bring it back.

I'll.
Fucking choke whoever I need to to get this goddamn.
Serious back, dude, it's so fun.

Yeah, I'm going to try.
I'm going to try this sound and see if it works OK.
No, no.

Drag you love.
Come on.

Through the ditches.
Do you imagine like ripping through these fucking
checkpoints?

Drag you love?
That would be amazing.

There's only one perfect band
for this, though, and it's

Nickelback.
Oh God, oh man.

Don't drag my photograph.
Don't drag the Canadian embarrassments into this.
Creep creep, Can you take the?

Effort of having that band, like
having an actual band and they make their lyrics like they they
change them up so that they're related to what's happening in
the game.

So it's it's about jet skis or
something, right?

It's like can you Rev me higher?
Look at.

This jet ski waves where the
score lines are, something like that, I don't know.
Oh my God, never made it as a jet ski.
Couldn't cut it as a jet ski

Then.
This is how you jet ski?

Holy fuck.
Cut that part out, don't leave it in.
Are you kidding?

There's no way that's that's not
staying in.

It is.
You know what?

Actually, I think I found the
new theme song for the entire show.
When you get to Sector Z, she'll show up and actually help you
hit the missiles, which is welcome because it's actually
helpful, you know?

So when they're helpful like
that, it's awesome.

Like if you help Bill and all of
them and Cortana, then he shows up later.
I don't remember what stage off the top of my head.
Solar, he's he shows up in Solar and he just like helps you kill
a couple of enemies so you can get some help.
And then in sector X he helps you to unlock the gates so that
you can go into NO.

That's what I was, yeah.
Yeah, and Kat will show up in just shows up once, right like
or or sorry, she will show up in both of the level I think.
I don't think she just shows up in Z.
She'll show up and and help you if you go the.
Other way too.

I think it's Macbeth.
And she just.

Shows up near the beginning and
takes down a couple of enemies and then disappears.
The problem with her?

The problem with her showing up
in Z is that if you're looking to get the medal for C, she
automatically takes down one of the missiles.
So that's you're basically locked out of getting the medal
when she does that.

OK.
Oh, OK.

Oh no.
Oh man, it's gotta be quick.

That that sucks.
Gotta be quicker than her but.

That's it's hard, right?
Because you're paying attention to five other things, yeah.
Right, Like the enemies in that stage are very aggressive and
they will take down your team if you don't help them.
Yeah.

And without her, it's a pretty
difficult stage.

I think like it's, it's
definitely for me, it was at least anyway from when I was
replaying them.

But I, I like yeah, I like it
when their friends show up.

Yeah, I think it's fun.
I like it when other animals show up and say dumb animal
noises and, and like they they talk about their history or
whatever, like, you know, yeah, it's fun.
I I think it's about their.

History.
They, they create this little narrative and like, you start
wondering like, like, oh, Bill and Fox were friends in
elementary school or something.

You know, I'll go get what's
going on there.

Because like when you're a kid
like you, you think about that crap because because you have
like you're playing this game all the time, like, OK, well, I
wonder what is is about these people.
And like, I think it's so crazy that like Nintendo just they had
something like like this could have been huge, like they could
have done story or something with this and or had these
characters that people just love and Revere and still reference
and like are in the pop culture and they just did nothing with
it.

That's true.
They they sort of let.

It in they explore it in the
game that nobody played right and and command for DS you have
a bunch of different branching paths that you can take and
that's where they explain.

Oh and Andros had a nephew who
hated him and not a nephew a grandkid that hated him and
wanted to kill him.

Fox and Crystals explained more.
And Falco and Kat and Bill and

Fox and all that stuff.
But so we gotta get a re release of that then that's what I gotta
play, yeah. 'Cause I'm what?
Like OK, here, here's the thing, let.
Me, it's Fire Emblem Starfox.

It's awesome.
Oh, I said it again though.

Enough.
Yeah, like it's one of those games.
It's enough gimmicks.

I still prefer, like in my mind,
I, I love Starfox 64 and I got

Starfox Command being like, Oh
yeah, it's going to be Starfox 64.
It's the new, it's the new

Starfox 64.
It's on my DS.

It's going to be amazing.
And then it was like, it was, it had those moments, it had that,
a little bit of it, but it was different.
It was fundamentally different.

And it wasn't bad.
I think I'd appreciate it now more than I did back then,
because back then I was like, I this isn't Starfox 64.
Yeah, you know.

Well, that's what you want.
That's what I would have expected too if I if I had it at
the time.

Dude, thanks again.
Thanks everyone for listening and watching.
If you've been watching us, thank you for being with us.
We will talk to everybody next time.
I remember 64.