Level 77 - Army Men: Sarge's Heroes 2 - Green, Tan, and Blue All Over

3D O you and you go go chick
food.

We're going to starve, Sarge.
Boys it's summertime, go hungry for some green versus tan
fighting his new army men

Sarge's heroes 2 fire in the
hole fighting a new world.

It's from PlayStation two
PlayStation game console

Nintendo 64 and gave away color
rated everyone through team.

I've always been a big man.
Army Men Sarge's Heroes 2 Real

Combat Plastic Man good to go.
Welcome to Remember 64, where this week we're good to go as
you may have already heard.

Hello everyone, and welcome to
the show.

Welcome if you are here for the
first time and hello again if you are a returning listener or
viewer.

Here on Remember 64 we play and
discuss the good, the bad, the ugly and everything in between
for the Nintendo 64's library.

My name is David Pitrangelo and
I am the true Victor

Frankenstein.
I shall bring you back and your friends with a bubbly drink
found in your average fridge or possibly a vending machine.
That's it.

That's pretty much my plan.
Everyone Jiggy, look back.

Hello.
What's your plan?

Just to get plastered.
And there's and there's the name for it.
There it is.

Get plastered everyone.
And, and I mean, first of all, you got to hear us talk about
some Army men on the 3D O experience because we have done
that in the recent weeks.

If you haven't heard our guest
spot on the 3D O experiences with experience with Bill and
Thrac, check that out.

That was fun.
We played the first one.

This time we're playing Army Men
Surges Heroes 2.

Bill Thrac, welcome back to
Remember 64.

Hi, hello, hi, hello.
Hello, we talked, we talked at length about this franchise a
little bit, the craziness that is 3D O in general as far as
Surges, Heroes and Army Men goes.
But I'm sure we'll touch on that a little bit here and there.
But I guess either one of you guys can kind of start.
But you've played, if anyone hasn't heard yet, you guys have
played a decent amount of the

Army Men games so far.
How's it been going?

And I guess to kick things off a
little bit, is this one one of the good ones?
You.

You start, Bill, you.
Start well, there's not a lot of good ones.
So it's it's not, it's not hard to be one of the good ones.
There's like the.

Truth comes out, there it is.
There's like 4 that are considered good debatably
depending on who you ask.

I'd say this is one of the
better ones.

OK.
That's that's.

The easiest way to put it.
Put it on the box.

It's a series that prides itself
on quantity over quality 'cause it's crazy to think how many
games there are in the series but yet they happened in such a
short span of time.

Like the year this Sergey's
Heroes came out in like 2002 we probably had like 5 or 6 other
army man games at the exact same.
Time you'd actually looked this up In the previous episode we
had said there was five games released in 99 that year when
Sergeant Heroes one came out.

There was also five that came
out in 2000 because this game came out the following.
Year.

Yeah.
It's ridiculous.

It it's something that you look
at it and you just think, how in the hell did they pull this off
right?

Like I genuinely don't
understand, but I've been, I've been ranking the Army men games
personally as we've been going because I just, I just want to
keep track and I, and I got to say Sergeant Heroes 2 is at
currently the second best one we've played.
Very nice.

It's no RTSRTS is going to be
hard to top 'cause it was actually made by a good studio R
it was.

Made by a developer that knows
how to make games.

Yeah, good.
On good on Pandemic Studios, we miss them.
I miss.

Mercenaries, yeah.
I miss Mercenaries all the time.

Such a great game.
Oh my God.

So.
Yeah.

So Surge's Heroes Two.
Yeah, coming off of Surge's

Heroes one, I was like, man, I
really hope this is better.

And I guess the short of it is
it is better, but by how much?

I think we'll figure that out as
we go.

Sure.
Yeah, part of the process is trying to narrow it down, right.
Figure why or if or if, you know, maybe, maybe not.
OK, so we'll dig into that a bit.
Now, before we get into

Surgeon's Heroes 2, I want to
make sure that we did like a, we did like a, a pretty great sort
of like new segments on your show.
As of recording, it was last week.
So what number is that episode?

I don't even know.
So people can find it.

It'll be it was episode 117.
Sorry, Put you on the put you on the spot, but it's 117.
Yeah.

There you go.
Nice.

It's a good number.
Yeah, it feels good, right?

It feels like a good number to
be a part of it over.

Two years and we're not close to
done.

Yeah, that's.
Great.

Lots of 3D O awesomeness.
Guys, Oh, I think it'll be fun when we near the end where when
we have to start scraping the bottom of the barrel, that's
gonna be, that's gonna be the fun ones.
See, what scares me is I have to actually figure out which
podcast I'm talking about half the time 'cause I'm sitting here
thinking like it is.

It's the one that's over 100.
Oh wait, they're all over 100 now.
Oh, wait a second.

Yeah, the one that has some form
of direction.

Congrats on that.
Then there you go.

I mean all over 100.
I mean, that's, that's pretty great.
There you go.

I, I, I realized like yesterday,
I've recorded over 400 episodes just between all three.
Shows amazing Bill the master there we go.
The reason why I bring up a, a, a new segment on, on your show,
which is something that you guys do every time is that this week
that we're recording this or potentially the week that you
hear this when this comes out, which is a few days later after
a recording, people will have their hands on the analog 3D.
And I just thought we could sort of, it'd be like a little
opportunity to kind of talk about it a bit because it is
very much directly and 64 related.
I know Jiggy, you have yours either on the way or potentially
before we hit record.

It could be at your doorstep at
the moment.

It's on the way.
I haven't really received a notification that it shipped
other than the general notification that everything is
shipping.

Right.
You know.

Late November.
Whatever.

Oh, it's.
Like, OK, cool.

It'll get there when it gets
there kind of thing.

Yeah, yeah.
Part of it is who cares?

Yeah.
It's what's another, what's another couple days.
Keep delaying everything.

So yeah, I'm just happy there's
a light at the end of the tunnel.
Allegedly.

I haven't gotten it yet.
Yeah, or so they say.

Yeah.
I want to talk about it a little bit because it's sort of there
were like review copies I guess that went out and people sort of
talking about some of the fine details of what's been good,
what's not, what's expected, what wasn't expected and sort of
some of the differences and stuff.
But before I say some of those details, the message that I got
from Jiggy 2:00-ish days ago, or was it yesterday the first thing
he writes?

Yeah, the first thing he writes
before there's any link or anything other.
Although it was a few messages together, but it read at 11:57
AM.

Analog 3D is not for you man.
And then followed by a YouTube video by Modern Vintage Gamer,
who's a pretty good digs into a lot of.
Good old MBG.

Yeah, very, very good stuff.
So I did watch that.

I've read a couple articles and
stuff like that.

And essentially the main reason
I think that that you said that right off the bat was my plan
initially was because this is how I'm playing the majority of
these games is the ever drive and plugging that into my N64
and playing it that way.

But I would have been very
disappointed if I did not cancel my order and it arrived sometime
in the next month or two I put that cart in or I realized
through reviews like this, oh, hey, that's not going to work
right now.

So that's one of the current
limitations.

Early days, things could change,
hacks come out there, all those types of things.
But as of right now, that message that you wrote Jiggy was
absolutely right, because as of right now, it would not be for
me.

Yeah, it's it's one of those
things too.

There's there's a little bit of
inconsistent, I won't say inconsistent information, but
people having different results with different flash carts and
people saying this one works and people saying no, it doesn't.
And people saying, oh, this one works and then other people
saying no, it doesn't.

And it it just keeps going
around.

But the the prior you use an X5,
correct?

I do I.
Do yeah.

So that particular one does not
work right at this moment.

I'm hoping maybe there's hope I
use the the seven.

I'm hoping maybe it maybe it'll
work.

But it also seems like it could
be something that would be updated with firmware definitely
on the flash cart side of things.
It kind of sounds like analog is like we don't wanna, we don't
wanna do that, but it's I.

Don't know, is this something
they didn't mention say when they were talking about the 3D?
As far as I can tell, they didn't mention it at all.
They just basically talked about it's going to upscale, it's
going to do 4KA connection, the control like those types of
things when you really look at it.
And when I was reading some of the reviews and one of the ones
I have pulled up, I can I'll share the screen so you guys can
kind of see it too.

It is from Digital Foundry.
That was one of the ones that broke down a lot of the the sort
of technical specs, which is a lot of what they do anyways that
that basically said, it's interesting that most of these
reviews in these hands on over the last couple weeks as of this
recording hearing at least anyways, was finding out what it
does because they didn't provide a lot of that information.
And you know when you have like the handhelds, for example,
which Thrac, I think we talked briefly about it or you talked
about them A.

Little bit, yes, I do have
banana log POG.

It's sitting back there.
I should have pulled it out.

It's a little dumb.
Yeah, I have it.

I use it mainly for my Game Gear
games because I'm trying to do a complete collection for the sake
of Game Gear and the hardware itself is notoriously tough to
deal with cause of like bad capacitors and the screens
aren't great, all that kind of stuff.
I have a Game Gear.

Yeah, battery.
I have a Game Gear.

But like, you know, it works
kind of rough.

So I figured I'd just get a
pocket with the adapter and I don't have to worry about it.
Yeah, yeah.

And that's and that's totally
fair.

And I think the pocket is fine
with like Game Boy Flash cards.

I'm not sure.
I don't have enough Game Boy games to really check.
But The thing is with it is that the the The thing is, it feels
like anyway, and I could be wrong, but it feels like the
pocket ones are, you know, they're it's understandable that
like you just have the carts and it works and that's how it goes
and.

Yeah, 'cause collecting.
Cause collecting for handheld consoles is usually a lot
cheaper, yes.

Like Game Gear is one of the
cheapest, yeah.

Or, well, Game Boy's gone up.
But like the Game Gear, is one of the cheapest consoles you can
collect for.

Right as as is, I mean Bill you,
you maybe correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know from
a couple of friends who have a a decent amount of Genesis games,
Genesis is kind of like that too, but that may have changed
in the last.

Sense on the game.
It used to be a lot cheaper, but

I think Sega nostalgia has kind
of boosted everything unfortunately.
All those damn, those damn Sonic movies, that's what they did.
Watch those movies, they're great.
Well, it doesn't help that like, there's a bunch of people like
me and Bill who just love Sega so.
It's great just.

Just gobble it all up and
everything, yeah?

Ari, I like crazy.
Tasman The.

Thing is like you can go to a
retro store and you'll find like 20 copies of Sonic 1 and they're
not that expensive.

Yeah, but.
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.
But if you're looking for like fantasy *4.
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, that.
That it was.

It was hard getting my copy of
Shining Forest back there.

I don't know if you can see it.
I have a CIB of Shining.

Forest see where's.
It it's sitting on the shelf back there.
Oh, it's, oh, look at that.

Oh, you see it?
It's in the shelf.

Oh yeah.
That that cost a pretty penny, but it was worth it.
Yeah, there's always going to be a couple of those regardless of
the console.

But I, I guess my point is that
this is, it's, it's a, something about it being a, a, you know,
sit on your desk or table or, or entertainment systems console
feels different and not knowing that much about it.
And because of the price, not that a lot of their stuff is
cheap, like their stuff is a premium price.
Feels like, oh, it's when you really think about it, as
exciting as this was.

Yeah, we didn't really know that
much about it.

Oh we knew nothing about it for
the longest time and like we got one video after they keep in
mind I think they delayed the shipment like once or twice
already.

Two or three times at least we.
Got like at least one video that showed 1080 snowboarding with
like CRT scan lines and like it looked good on the TV but they
didn't really show any gameplay.

They didn't show anything they
just showed like it could have been a mock up for all we know.
Like it could have been totally fake.
Just screenshots, there's no video.
Well, there was a video, but it was just like the intro of 1080
snowboarding playing.

It was like.
Nobody was doing anything like they weren't actually playing.
It was just like.

Was it like Coleco chameleon
levels of like this is sketchy or was it at?
Least like a legitimate.

It was like, no, it was, yeah.
It could go either way.

I think that's it could go,
yeah.

Yeah.
Did you say the Amico?

Is that what you said?
No, no, the the Coleco chameleon was like, it was like this weird
thing that.

That actually did release,
unlike the Amico.

The miko didn't release.
I thought you were going that way.
I was like I'm still waiting for

Earthworm Gym 4.
He's waiting, dog.

See the Clinko?
The Clinko Chameleon was funny because when they first showed
it off, someone looked at it and it was like, that's just the
Super Nintendo shoved inside an

Atari Jaguar Michelle, like
because you could tell by the back then they were like, then
they later came back.

They're like, OK, OK, we're
sorry.

Here's this nice clear model
that's actually got some hardware inside.
And everyone looked at me and were like, Sir, that's a capture
card.

Oh my gosh.
Yeah, it it never happened.

The only thing that was
significant about it was they bought the the Atari Jaguar
shell molds from that dental company that owned them before.
Now they're in.

Now they're in some museum,
thankfully.

But yeah, that those molds have
had a weird, weird.

Jerk.
At least there's at least there's somewhere.
Yeah, at least it's something.

Yeah.
So like the CRT thing.

So some of the stuff I want to
bring up was interesting.

Like I learned a lot just by
reading this and watching those videos and stuff.
It's just like the over.

So there's overclocking, there's
different modes of overclocking for the console.
And obviously I think we know we've talked about this on and
off through certain games and there's limitations of the
console, which is just it's a cartridge.
It's the generation, it's how

Nintendo made this.
There's a lot of reasons why the 64 is what it is, because the
the cartridge does a lot of the work, which is used typically
not how this stuff worked or could work.
And they really, they pigeon holed the power into just a
couple of what do they call them or was it here that they were
talking about it perform a bottleneck that all the sound
and processing was done directly on the CPU.
There's a a reality Co processor.
It was all just the same pipeline.
That's what I was thinking of, all going through that SO
memory.

Pipeline is just awful on the
NC. 4 exactly.

The N the 64 bits in the N64 is
like one of the most unnecessary things ever for a console when
you really think about it.

Especially when the when you
find out the Wii U is only 32 bit.
Think about that one for a minute.
It's, it's interesting because what it's, yeah, different
exactly what the, what the 3D seems to want to do or seems to
be what the technology is doing is not bottlenecking things and
making sure that it can be processed differently in the RAM
works and those types of things.

So it sounds like it's trying to
do the job, but it doesn't sound like it's consistent across the
board.

And it doesn't seem like for
every game that frame rate, for example, is improved.
So if that's what you're looking for, you're you may or may not
get it, depending on the game.

I think the surge of Heroes
games are a prime example of like, oh, this thing has crazy
frame rate issues every once in a while.
And I ran into that again in in two.
But some games, if you think, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna plug
that in.

I'm gonna put that card in that
that bill that you were holding before, it's gonna improve this.
I don't know about that game in particular, about Surge of Hero
2 in particular, but it may not do anything and it may just
fancy up the graphics a little bit and like.
I think it's I think it's safe to say that they probably
focused in on popular games.

I was going to say that, yes.
Because Goldeneye was confirmed.

Perfect Dark was confirmed.
Perfect Dark has something here like.
Like Mario 64, Ocarina Time,

Banjo, like you know, those
games are going to be fine.

Yeah, so they said that the they
actually mentioned the the Rare games specifically because of
the way that they were made.

They could actually focus on
those on their games specifically a little bit more
just because of the way that the the memories read or the way
that they're constructed, whatever it is.
So that that's good.

And this is like a screen that
Digital Foundry put up of perfect dark.
So on the left, I I think it's left for you guys too.
On the left is an actual like, like a mod on PC for perfect
dark to up the frame rate and make it run a little bit
smoother and stuff.

And on the right is what the 3D
did and it's much more consistent at 30 frames and
everything is running a little smoother and stuff like that.
So it works depending on the game and like Thrack, like you
guys just said, maybe a little bit more for games like this and
that were more popular and are more likely to be played, I
guess, at least right now.

Yeah, like I'd be curious to the
the hockey wrestling games, how they would run on that.
Thing.

Oh yeah, and wrestling games
typically run into a decent amount of slow down.
Yeah, curious like.

And those are like, those are
like my favorite N64 games are the ones hockey made so.
But a game like like rocket robot on wheels but like it's
really weird physics engine.

How that would work?
Resident Evil.

I think Resident Evil 2 would be
an interesting one.

See how that runs.
Oh, Resident Evil. 2 Can't confirm, has a lot of issues.
Well, that game is.

Like wizardry to begin with.
Yeah, I was gonna say.

Because it was so tough to get
on there in the 1st place.

Modern.
Modern.

Established gamer actually
highlighted that game in particular and there's a scene
where like the audio was like desyncing from the video and it.
Was oh.

Yeah, I did see that.
Yeah, that's right.

Although, yeah.
I I can't confirm this, but it sounds like there's probably
going to be firmware updates and things will probably get
smoothed out quite a bit.

It sounds like a lot.
Of this comes down to just the

N64 being such a weird funky
beast in general like like like emulating it just like the
simple emulation.

It took a long time for it to.
It's not easy where it.

Is.
It's still not.

It's still not.
No, it's a.

Lot better than it used to be,
but it still does run into its issues as well.
And that's I think probably a much easier process to figure
out than doing this hardware thing.
I do have one question about this thing.
Does it have its own proprietary controller or do you have to use
like a old school and it does?

But it's separate, Yeah.
Oh, it doesn't come.

With it, no.
No, it's not extra. 80 bucks or whatever.
It is $80.

Stuff like that.
I didn't.

Get it?
They're highlighting using the 8 bit dough or is it 8 bit dough
brand?

It's an 8 bit dough.
One.

Yeah, that's what it is.
OK, well.

You know it'll be.
Good.

Any yeah N64 like.
Naturally.

Yeah, it has.
It has.

Ports.
So yeah, it's just weird that they wouldn't.
Give you like, here's the new controller, give it a try.
You know the wireless.

Switch 1 I don't know if
anybody's confirmed.

Like I think it has Bluetooth.
I think it does, but I haven't seen anyone say that the NSO
controllers work but also to the 8 bit dough.
Because they're trying to sell it, Yeah, but.
Also, that's the one.

That they've only that's the
only one that they've confirmed that actually works.
So people have tried Xbox controllers, for example, and it
doesn't work and that's just

Bluetooth.
I bet you could get.

A That's weird though 64.
Adapter and.

Use the NSO I've I feel like.
The NSO and 64 controller is the one you'd want to use.
Yeah, 'cause.

It's.
Like it's the freshest one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
So.

It's interesting there's there's
stuff to the sort of iron outs,

I guess, no internal.
Upscaling, which was a big deal, but I honestly think it it looks
pretty good with the filters and everything you can kind of push
out.

I.
Just I just want, for me, it was

I want to experience as many of
these games as possible.

Not even like to run smoother.
I think frame rate is bigger to me than saying, Oh my God, the
graphics and the 4K.

What, like you're not going to
fundamentally change the game.

I know that that's not possible.
I don't want that.

I don't want all of a sudden to
take Mario 64 and make it look like it was on 360, you know,
generation of graphics.

I I don't like those 360.
N64 remasters of Banjo in

Perfect Dark and all those.
I have those all in Rare Replay version of.
Perfect Dark.

Yeah, the Rare Replay.
Stuff.

I got all that and they're
great, yeah, but I don't want.

You know, I don't have to play
every game in that updated quote

UN quote updated style, right?
Like, that's fine.

I don't need that.
I don't need Sarge's Heroes 2 to look perfection, you know, as if
it was out last year.

Like it.
That's fine.

That'd be awesome.
It would be great, I think it would.
Be cool, that's what these I feel like that's what these
games need is something more modern but I love.
Upscaling old PS1 and 64 games because I'm always like you're
not going to make a game from this error look like that much
better no matter what you do.

I think that's it, just looks
more.

Shiny.
I will say.

I will say, though, having that
modern sort of digital solution, this gives me hope that it's
going to look pretty good because I'm kind of just hoping
it's going to be comparable to

NSO, but I can use my actual N64
library.

Yeah, that's all I'm really
hoping for.

I'm not going to I'm not going
to get in a 4K output out of my

N64 like I don't care.
But I will say that blowing my

N64 up on my flat screen out of
my living room doesn't really look that great.
I would actually argue that the

PS1 looks better when I blow it
up on my flat screen and I don't know if that's due to the anti
aliasing like the blur and everything.
I do have a super eon 64 HDMI like just dongle just goes in
the back of the analog out on the N64 and it looks pretty
good.

I play most of my N64 games that
way and then it goes through my capture card and people on
stream are always like, are you actually playing this N64?
Because it looks really good and

I like literally have the thing
like the lights on and everything.
I'm like it's it's right here.

You can see me playing it with
the cartridge inside like people.
Don't leave it sometimes.

And you and you don't.
Get any input latency or anything like that?
No, I.

I have, I have, I don't think I
don't have the same device you do, but I do have a, a, a card
and stuff like that.

And I've I've never run into any
major issues at all.

So nothing that I've noticed
where I'm like, oh, I can't, I can't do this.
Like this is just not going to work.
And then when I put it on the back, I've taken a couple
pictures in the last few weeks of some of the games that we've
played, like Castlevania, for example, on the TV in our
basement, it's 70 inches.

It's not the fanciest TV, but
the TV is just massive and it's like, you know, I could I go
like this with my arms and I'm reaching and it's and I put it
in four by three as well.

And it's still like this huge
thing and they're like kind of looks like a mess, but I'm like
I'm sitting in the dark.

I'm playing Castlevania like
you.

Can you?
Can count the polygons, I can count the.
Polygons.

That's right, it's.
Kind of like this.

I think it could have one.
Polygon per hand kind of reminds.
Me of like whenever I mess around with like blame cast like
playing like Metal Gear Solid or

Gran Turismo because there's
just something really funny about playing PS1 game on a
Dreamcast and it just.

It looks better.
It's so weird.

I mean a lot of.
Dreamcast games were just PS1 ports.
Fair.

But these are like you're
playing APS one disc in a

Dreamcast and it's just, it's
something about that is weird.

Yeah, that's like Cross.
Breeding, that's just, that's just wrong.
That's right, yeah.

The best part is the.
Best part is the blame the

Blamecast disc.
When you boot that up, it just like trash talks Sony like the
entire time throughout it like refers to them as the evil
company and stuff.

I mean they.
Are but.

You know Sony did.
Kill them very pedally so yeah.

Well, there you go.
Yeah, exactly.

So, all right, Jiggy, we'll,
we'll report back when you get your hands on with yours.
Hopefully your NSO controller works.
That'd be really cool.

I'm sure some people are going
to try them out as well.

And next episode, probably, I'll
have it.

Right.
Well, at least.

Next one maybe the one after
whatever and we'll just see how things go and we'll talk about
it because that'd be kind of cool to to sort of hear how it's
going and and what games you try out.
You know things like that matters too, right?
You you have a few more actual physical cartridges so than.
I do I I.

Have some but I don't have.
I don't have as many as I wish, so right now, yeah.
No, You guys realized how?

Scattered.
Around me, I pointed to that shelf and like I do have a bunch
on that shelf, but then down there, but they're also.
Like thrown across my.

Table here.
Well, my favorite.

Part is you pointed my eye
immediately is like spider man, yes.
Spiderman.

Yeah, I notice that too.
Yeah, it it.

Feels like this like analog 3D
thing.

It's more meant for like
enthusiasts who have all their physical games and want like a
fresh piece of hardware to play it, to like match their TV or
entertainment setup or whatever.

That feels like what it's meant
for.

But like if you want to like
play these games, like with, you know, improved resolution and
frame rate and all that good shit, I think the obvious answer
is just go emulate it, bro.

Just go get Project 64, figure
out how to work it, and that'd probably be an easier solution.
But but the wreck, I love plugging it in and then taking
out blowing.

That's plugging it back in,
blowing into it, plugging it back in.
See every time.

I put an N64 cart into the
console.

It never felt like it was
sitting all the way because it's so loose.
It's so.

Loose.
I know because I was so used to the Genesis where that thing
locks in the fucking place and doesn't move.
So when I got to this I'm like, oh, does it?
I don't know.

It never felt right.
I I.

I mean I I was an SNES kid and
whatever, but like all my friends that had an NES talk
about a cartridge that barely finds its way into the console.
Yeah, the fact that like.

The door was constantly open and
we'd have to like, jam literally jam someone's slipper inside the
console to keep it down and locked in in order to play a
game like apparently you never had.
To actually push it down.

I know you never actually.
Had to, but for some reason for or didn't have to go down all
the way or something like there was something about it.
It just it like.

Like I think push, I think when
you push it down, the idea is it's meant to kind of like help
lock the pins in place for whole connection.
But the problem is they bend.

So over time, that's why a lot
of them just don't work super well 'cause they just don't.
They've just been bent too much.

That's why I bought a top.
Loader, I was going to say.

That's they have the top loader.
It also looks cool, like why not?
You know, but it doesn't have.

AV you have to mod it.
You have to mod it or find like a like a rare version that or no
Nintendo did official modding back.
Yeah, there is a.

Really.
Rare.

There are rare ones that do that
because it.

Originally came out with just
RCI believe the Japanese version is it was called the like the
Famicom AV in Japan.

Like it was made for that.
Oh, is that why it's called?

AV is because it has the AV
Yeah, yeah, in.

The in the Japanese version.
In the Western version, it didn't because I guess AV wasn't
common yet, but a lot of people called and complained and they
said, oh, send them to us.

We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll mod
it to give you AV.

Hell yeah.
And.

And they did.
And there are a few of those floating out around there,
probably for like $5,000,000.

Yeah, something.
Stupid, I just love.

To.
Select three people.

That did it.
Like it's just.

Yeah, exactly.
I just love the Super.

Nintendo with its eject button,
I think classic gamer referred to it as a toaster.
Like, he's like this.

This thing is like a toaster
just pops.

Yeah, it looks kind of like a.
Toaster with a couple purple buttons, yeah.
When I had my Superintendent I always tried to mash the eject
button as hard as I could to see how far the console didn't.
The game could fly out.

Nerd, actually.
Have a proper like Super

Nintendo toaster.
Like it looked like he had the

NES.
Toaster.

He had the.
Well, he had.

The.
Nintoaster and that was made by a different guy who like made it
as like a weird modding project, like separate and then they
found him.

He made a different one just for
them.

And actually there's a video, I
think his YouTube channel, it's still up.
I think it's called like vomit saw and he has a whole
instructional video on how to make the nintoaster and the one
he made is the one he gave to the nerd.
See, I just remember Sega was like ridiculous with their
cartridges because like Sega, you always had to like like
really like get that thing out there.
Oh yeah.

But it but it felt.
More stable in there, you know?

Yeah.
Man, look at that thing.

I know that this this broken.
Thing compared.

To this, that thing looks like
so space age.

Yeah, it does, yeah.
Also.

Fun, fun fact, this this copy of
Ken Saden is actually a baseball game because I got bamboozled in
a flea market.

It's a little dusty.
Sorry, no, a little.

Dusty.
Oh yeah.

Bamboozled.
Yeah, they said it was.

Ken Saden.
I plugged it into some baseball game.
I was like, God, I was like, OK, damn it.
It wasn't even a good baseball.

Game.
Yeah, why not?

There's a few.
There's AI was so mad I.

I put it away in storage and now
it just lives in this broken one in the background.
It's still serving a purpose.

Though it's serving a purpose.
Yeah, it's for an.

Example of how strong the
cartridge holds into the.

That's right, it's.
Good, There you go.

It's his immediate.
Show and tell.

Yes, that's right.
There you go.

Live there until I find.
A broken three DO that I can stick in the background so.
OK, the analog. 3.

DO the analog.
Oh there we that would Oh yeah, let's do that.
OK, let's talk 3 DO ish sort of three DO made these army army
men games, or at least a good chunk of them.
Surge of Heroes 2 is one of those.
Bill, let's start with you.

We played the first.
We all thought it was OK, which was basically the the rating
that we gave on your show.

Any changes with two?
Anything in particular that you're like, actually this is a
hell yeah as opposed to an OK?

It's better.
Like, so I will say right off the bat, I played both of these
full playthroughs.

That's right.
That's right.

So 64 and PS2 if people aren't
watching these have got the 64 cartridge and the PS2 disc as
well so the. 64 game controls about the same, it might be a
little better.

This actually I think.
Those are tiny bit different.

Like the buttons themselves are
a little bit different, a couple different, but the layout's.
Different.

The first thing I did was I went
in and remapped all the buttons to be exactly the same as the
first game, not relearning the buttons were.
Different, but the the analog stick felt a little it mostly
the same I'd say compared to the first game.
This game on the other hand, I actually think they redesigned
the controls and this actually felt, I'm not going to say good,
but I didn't have a problem controlling this game.
The other PS2 version, it felt, it felt like a game.
Like.

It's tank.
Controls the camera is like too sensitive Oh my God like to be.
Honest.

You don't even.
Need the camera because you just tank control around and you're
fine, yeah.

But.
Yeah, this actually this, this felt like a significant
improvement compared to the the first game is, is it
structurally?

The same like and they just
redid the, you know, the actual mechanic of it.
Is that basically what it is?

It's prettier.
It's missing one level.

The music is, the music is.
It's interesting.

The music is better, but it's
not the same as the PS1 version.

Like the PS1 version has
different tracks in certain places for some reason, but
other than that, like about the same.
The cutscenes are they're more compressed in N64, but they're
about the same regardless so.

I believe this is.
Considered the definitive version, even though I think
this got higher reviews. 60.

Four, we got higher reviews.
Interesting yeah, I think I guess maybe at the time it was I
mean it's a couple years before 2 years before I think the PS2
one.

So yeah, PS2 is I think 20000
actually no, the N 60.

Four got the worst reviews,
Yeah.

Nevermind.
Yeah, so.

So the N64 version was the first
one to come out on September 27th, 2000.
The PS2 version came out March 22nd 2001, 2001.
There it is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Drac what about you?
You, you play the PS2 one I think, right?
Yes.

I have played the N64 version
but a very long time ago.

That copy is long gone and I I
remember my playing Surges heroes one and two on N64 back
in the day.

I was like.
You know nothing too.

Crazy.
So, so I was like, hey, let me just do the PS2 version 'cause I
think it'll be the easiest to play and all that stuff.
And I and I was correct.

It definitely looks a lot
better.

Oh, hi Sora too.
Yeah, it definitely.

It definitely looks a lot better
it the controls feel improved, you know, everything feels a bit
more snappy.

The frame rate is, it actually
has a consistent frame rate though I was emulating it, so I
may have that going for me.

I had it at 60 pretty much the
whole time.

And yeah, I I genuinely think
this is a better game than the first one.
I was thinking to myself, if

Sarge's Heroes 1 is like an
alpha, like a very rough early alpha of an idea, then Sarge's
Heroes 2 is like the coming together beta.
Like it's still not perfect, it definitely has its issues, but
it feels like a noticeable improvement over the first game.
You know how I kind?

Of thought about it.
What's that?

Sarge's Heroes 2 is what Sarge's
Heroes One could have been if they actually took their time
and, like, actually put effort into it.
Yeah, in a way.

Yeah, 'cause it cause with 1 I
had a lot of issues with like like repetitive mission
structures and not great level designs and all that and this
game to me that was the biggest improvement.
Like, I thought the levels were a lot more cleverly made, like,
you know, this mission we're seeing here when you have to,
you know, migrate your, like, navigate your way through the
fridge.

I thought that was actually a
really cool idea.

And it's a.
First or second?

Level, like, it's like really
early.

You're like, oh, this is what
they're doing.

This is cool, Yeah.
And it's not.

Just like, oh, go get this
person and throw him into the portal.
Get this guy, get him to the portal.
You know, there's more variety in it, which says to me that was
what people were complaining about at the time and they
listened and tried their best to fix it.
You know, they, they probably had a little bit more time with
this one than the first one.

First one they had like 3 weeks.
I think this one they had like 5 weeks and those extra two weeks
really show.

I'm sorry I'm I'm so.
Distracted by all the products in this fridge?
Oh.

I was a. 100% looking at all the
great Yeah wonder.

Bread.
I would love to try Wonder

Bread. 3D O.
Farms milk.

What does the Chinese?
Take out say like.

Whack, whack, whack.
Take out, Yeah.

Oh yeah.
Whack.

No, it's whack.
Whack.

Yeah, I don't know, 3D O farms
milk is funny to me.

Yeah, yeah.
And then you have the.

The the kernel or whatever it
says yummy on the.

Side of it, yeah.
First thing I did, I was like, oh.
A fridge.

Oh, I'm gonna look at all the
items like that's 100% what I Oh yeah, you got.
To yeah, you have.

To.
That's one.

Thing about 3D O that I find
amazing is how often they will shield their own company in
their games I love.

It, but it's not.
Egregious it didn't like it doesn't take a it's fun it's
nice yeah yeah so OK it's our game we.
Can do what?

We want it's the same level.
Of like Namco cause Namco love to self reference reference
their stuff in everything I and everyone's always like oh it's
cute go for it.

I love when companies get
retention.

Did this so it just explode?
Yeah, that.

That's the.
Secret serum, dude.

Serum.
That was my.

Little spiel at the beginning
was the fact that it was in in pop and soda bottles like it was
just.

Like, OK, I did not.
I did not retain anything I guess.
And you played two of them?

I know.
No, you played way more.

Than two of them and I played,
yeah.

Well, the problem is, well, the
problem is one in 2.

After a while, they will blend
together in your head.

You'll be like, oh, in two, we
did this.

It's like, no, you did that in
one.

Yeah, I could see that, Yeah.
Yeah, this is this part, actually, this particular level
where you're in the freezer once you navigate through the fridge
or in the freezer.

I was like, holy shit, there's a
giant fucking robot.

What the Hell's going on here?
Like Megazord?

Yeah.
Secret weapons.

This is this.
Is the the Power Rangers game I wanted Jiggy?
Oh, you.

Oh yeah, I.
Forgot you guys played the N64 version of that.
The PlayStation version is still bad but significantly better.
Oh, I don't know.

How you can get worse?
Now I oh, I'm definitely.

Curious because anything could
be better than that.

Jiggy, What'd you think of?
Searches goes to.

Largely what was said, yeah,
it's it's the first game.

I feel like it's it's the stuff
I was complimenting about the first game just sort of like
pushed over and they honed in on that.
Like the levels are shorter and smaller, but I think that really
helps the the whole being in the real world and like navigating
through these absurd things like their fridge and everything.
Like they had to have just listened to what everyone said.
Like everyone probably was like,

Oh, that was cool.
Like you should capitalize on that more.
And so they did.

They heard the.
Podcast last week yeah and and made and made this yeah, it
took.

About a week, yeah.
Yeah, it took about a week to do.
It so they they pulled it off and then they released.
It on the PlayStation 2.

Crazy.
I'm going to shill air.

Attack again.
They might have listened to the phrase of air attack and
incorporated some of that stuff.

Yeah, Air.
Attack.

Better live up to your
expectations man, I swear.

I, I I.
I'm.

I'm expecting it to be the the
best air combat game I've played in a lot.
I wouldn't.

I wouldn't.
Go that far but it over ace.

Combat get out of.
Here it'd.

Be more like ass.
It'd be more like Soviet strike because it's a helicopter game.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

I yeah, I think I'm kind of I'm
kind of with you guys too.

Like I think we're it feels like
we're all on the same page again.
Is that, you know, the game is mostly the same, but the
improvements they made are are you know, they're there good
improvements like they're in the right place.
They focus them in the right place.
I think is what it is, right.

I played through I, I said this
a little bit before we we hit record or maybe it was just as
we hit record.

I I played this in normal and I
think that was a bit of a mistake unfortunately because
there was as as much as the game isn't hugely difficult, neither
is the first one, but there are some areas where I got sort of
bottlenecked into certain spots.

There was 1.
I think it's when you're either just outside or just getting
into the tan base, the tan army men base where you have the if
the escort's someone, I can't remember who it is.
This is the exclusive.

N64 level is it?
It's fucking.

It's fucking brutal.
Like it's just, it's so short and simple.
You're basically going from a tank busts open a wall, You have
to go to the other side of the wall of the of the of the base
and escort one of the guys there, which again is what they
did in the first one a lot of the time.
And then you have to just sort of survive your way from point A
to point B Nothing crazy.

And it's not even that long, but
how many enemies and what the enemies are holding, like what
weapons they're using.

Make it spiders.
Yeah, those are.

Black Widow spiders, Yeah, yeah,
you just have to torch.

You have to torch them.
And I just, I got caught on that level multiple times because
your stupid friend that you're trying to rescue jumps in the
middle of a rocket fire every fucking time.
Unless you run in front of him and make the rock make them aim
at you instead of him and the rocket goes off to the side.
And if you just get that slightly off every 45 seconds,
which it takes about to get to that point, start over, start
over, start over.

I think I did it like a dozen
times.

And at one point I, I was like,
I, I rage quit, which I never do.
I was like, I can't, I can't do this.
Like this is stupid.

There must be a better way to do
this.

And I put it down till the next
morning and got through it.

But I was like, oh man.
The rest of the game though, I had no problem and it was OK.
But I, I I found this game to be.
Significantly easier than the first one.
The first ones where I had a couple of difficulty spike
moments, here it was.

Yeah, that's true.
Like I think the.

Only part I had a little bit of
difficulty with is when you're on, I think it's like you're in
the bedroom in the portal with the tanks are coming out and
they're coming after two of your guys and you have to use a
grenade launcher to defend them from the tanks.
And you have to aim that grenade launcher in such a specific way
'cause it has that arc in order to take out the tanks before
they're burning up in the ground.
Yeah, exactly.

I think that was like the one
real difficult spot for me.

I know that makes sense though.
Actually, I I picked up on that too.
That was I felt the same thing.

I noticed that.
Running gun doesn't isn't nearly as effective in this game.
As opposed to the first one?

Yeah.
Yeah.

I think that was I, I think that
was intentional as well, because

I think in the first game
everyone just did that.

So it feels like they made it
harder here so that they'd want you to actually stop and aim.
And I think it's more to the.

Game actually is somewhat
competently programmed AI.

It's a.
It's a smarter there's a couple points where you'll see an enemy
come out like one of the army men more more than anything than
some, you know, spider creature or something.
And sometimes they, they're out there, they take a couple shots
and they move to the next section.
Like I, I noticed that a couple times too.
They're they're just programmed to do that.
But they're like, oh, there's an enemy and then they sort of run
off to the side and when you go around the corner, they're
waiting for you with a couple other guys.
And in the first one that didn't really happen.
It's like, OK, they're there or they spawn out of nowhere, which
I notice happens a little bit less in this one.
Well, they cleverly.

Hide them in the background or
they hide them in the.

Background the the auto.
Aim in this one is definitely like way lessened, yes.
And like the.

Auto aim in the first game you
could be like not even looking and just like turn your guy and
you'll hit everybody to the left or right or wherever.
You're like a boomerang bullet.

Facing you, just tap the.
Button, you're good.

It's it's the leave.
Harvey Oswald Bullet.

Just the magic, right?
It's like shadow the.

Hedgehog.
It just always hits.

Where's that 4th chaos?
Emerald the coolest the.

Coolest.
My favorite?

Line.
Oh my.

Gosh, I don't have my sound bar
sound board up like taking candy from a baby from a baby and.
That's OK, fine with.

Me.
Oh God.

The best, the best.
Line in that game is when he karate chops Eggman to death in
one of the endings I can like see.
The animation in my head.

I've seen it before.
I've never played it, but I've seen it before.
He's like.

I am Shadow Android creation of
Doctor Eggman.

This is who I am, yeah.
Every ending.

Just rinse and.
Repeat.

This OK so I.
I don't know.

If I if I cared about the story
so much in this one, I kind of like the last one because like
the first one, because not that it's a massive issue or anything
like that really as much as it's improved.
I think gameplay wise for me, I think the I found the discovery
of the portals and oh, you're going into the quote UN quote
real world and stuff like we talked about in in the episode
with you guys.

But like in comparison to this
one, this was more like, oh, they're just bringing guys back.
And I thought the little but you know, the sort of like zombie
guys was kind of a surprise.

So that was cool.
But otherwise the structure and whatever of the of the first one
as simple as it was.

Maybe I'm just too simple
minded, but so I I.

I kind of like it a little.
Bit better I have to.

I have to bring this up, this
plot is very amusing.

Like there is some pretty funny
moments throughout this game, but this game's plot is so
repetitive at times.

Like Vicky gets captured like 4
times I swear to God.

Oh my gosh, she gets captured.
Like like 4 times in the first hour.
It's straight.

It's straight up a Mario game.
Like she gets kidnapped by

Plastro, he wants to marry her.
I'm like it's just Bowser and

Peach.
It's Mario Odyssey kind.

Of.
I will say though.

There was a great line where
after that wedding thing where the the blue girl, I'm
forgetting her name right now.

Bridget Blue.
Bridget Blue No.

She's fine.
She's the.

Rosalina, That's right.
She's she's.

Flying off.
I love that he has a photo of his daughter in the back.
It's the most like it's still.

There from the first like it's
still there.

It's it is the hide, the pain.
Harold Face back there, but I find it there's a a great cut
scene where after Bridget portrays you for like the fifth
time, it happens a lot.

She's flying off in a.
Helicopter with a general plastro and Sarge goes there
goes your fiance, and then she goes, yeah, well, there's your
girlfriend up there as well.

I just I just found that.
That cut scene really funny.

Because there's a scene.
Earlier on where?

Like when?
Bridget switches over.

To the green side for like the
first time.

Sarge is like Oh my God, boobs
and.

If you look into the.
Background immediately.

Smitten.
But if you look in the background, you can see Vicki
over his shoulder and she's got the biggest stink eye going on
and it's the funniest thing.

Not not long after.
This this sort of a castle thing.
One of the differences too, even though I don't think it I
didn't, it doesn't actually functionally do anything.
You're also playing as Vicky a lot more, you know, in the first
one or, or you sort of the expectation is, oh, you're just
playing as Sarge and this it's kind of like 5050, I would say,
or 6040.

I think it's exactly the same.
Just yeah, the oh.

Yeah, she doesn't play any.
Different or anything?

Yeah, I think it's all her.
Running animation.

Is identical.
Yeah.

It's the funniest thing.
They they just basically.

Took the sleeves and midsection
off his suit and and gave him a ponytail.
And gave him a ponytail.

Yeah, that's basically what it
is.

Yeah.
Hair.

I.
I don't I I think this level was what surprised me the most
because I didn't know really anything about this game.
Just like with the first one when I went into it and I was
like, oh, this is weird.

It's sort of like a like a
horror setting with the castle and whatever.
I feel like, oh, I didn't expect this to be this.
Like it felt like it kind of came out of nowhere this stage.
And then there's zombie army man, and I'm like, hell yeah,
this is great.

And it it is.
One of the better levels in the game, I think, yeah.
I thought it was.

I thought it was.
Kind of cool.

It didn't feel too repetitive.
It you, you go inside.

Is it do you go?
Is it this one or but now I'm mixing up with the first one.
We were inside the castle as well.
You you do go in the.

Castle Yeah, yeah, yeah, so.
It was Vicki Cause.

Vicki gets trapped in the castle
and then you swap the sarge and have to go save her.
Yeah, yeah, like the.

The fifth time that happens
throughout the.

Game At this point the.
Fifth time this level.

Yeah, this.
I I don't know, the zombies don't do much, but at least it's
a cool idea.

They're a different kind of
enemy.

And that's nice.
Yeah, they're kind of bullet.

Sponges.
Cool to see the different.

Colored pieces come together,
yeah.

Yeah, I feel like if this was
the first game where they made it in two weeks instead of four,
they would just be all one color.
It would just be tan or just be blue or something.
And then this.

Yeah, the arm is different.
The leg is a little different.

It's like, yeah, this is.
Cool, somebody snip their.

Lunch break for that so blue.
Blue first made their appear their first appearance in Air
Attack, but they were kind of a they weren't super developed yet
character wise.

This is the first game to really
give the Blue faction their something.
Basically they're mascot.

They're Bridget.
There, Bridget.

Yeah, there Vicky.
Well, there is.

They're.
Big moved.

Plastic Lady.
We'll get to it at the.

End.
But there there is.

There is a sequel bait at the
end of this game.

Isn't there?
Oh, I kind of.

I blew right past that.
I didn't even realize there's a.

There's a bit of a tease for a
game that we talked a lot about in the last episode.
Oh, is there?

Really.
Oh, Oh, I didn't know that.

I don't know why I missed that.
My God, I was not.

I was not paying attention.
I was like, oh, this game's over.
Oh geez, I didn't know that.

Yeah, any, any.
Particular stand out like is anything, I don't know, does
anything feel different to you guys or anything acting like
level wise and you guys said level structure and stuff, but I
think for the most part it's kind of the same.
I think it's cool, I think.

It's cool that they leaned in
more to the real world stuff.

I think that really helps.
I really like the the fridge.

I thought that was neat the
fridge.

It's a great way to start.
It it's a great way to start things off right, to just be
like, oh, this is what we're doing.
And the 10, what was it?

Oh, the one thing I realized
about that level was in order to get to the freezer, you just
have to touch the thermostat.

That's it.
You don't like climb up anything or whatever.
It's like, oh, just touch the thermostat that'll zip you up to
the freezer 'cause that's how that works.
That's real life.

Yeah, that's the real world.
Yeah.

I will say, oh, go.
On I was gonna say control.

Wise to me it felt a lot better
now grand I was playing the PS2 version so it's you know going
to feel better in general, but and also the PS2 version.
I don't have the N64 one has the the PS2 version has a like a
180° turn, so yeah.

If you.
Push.

I think it's like L2 or
something like it, Like it's like a 180° turn, but there's no
animation or anything.

It's just like cut and you're
just like looking right behind you.
OK.

So that's interesting.
So that's jarring because when that.
Happened.

I was like, did something?
Did I do something wrong?

That's exactly.
What?

I thought so I, I, I didn't know
it was there and it's it, so it works the exact same way, which
is very interesting because I could have, you know, I, I
didn't know if it existed in the other versions, but I was like,
oh, that's a cool idea because it's sort of tanky control and
it flips you around or whatever.

I wasn't used to using it at
first so I was like not pressing that button, but I did press it
by accident at one point and thought oh shit I broke
something.

Oh shit.
This rum is is messed up and The thing is it.
Is it is useful in a couple situations it is.
I think papcom were taking notes.
It's It's crazy too, because in the the.
PS2 version because.

You have that second analog
stick and a Cam full camera controller.
Oh, that camera.

Is dog shit.
Oh my God.

It's so.
Bad you tap that.

Thing lightly and it just like
three 60s on you.

It's like, really?
Like it is.

So sensitive.
It's like if you're playing an

FPS and you turn the sensitivity
all the way up.

Yeah, you flick the thing and
you just spin around like a dancer.
I'm like, Nope, Nope, I never touched it again.
The good thing, the only good thing about it, it is if you
click the right stick, it centers the camera.
So that's really good.

Only I.
Like what?

Games in general have that,
yeah.

So that was a very common.
Thing in the PS2, that generation, it's just kind of.
Funny because the way because the game is tank controls the
camera kind of moves with you as it goes anyway so the camera
control in the PS2 version is like pointless I think.
I think they.

Did it because they didn't want
the right analog stick to be nothing.
You know you got to use it for something.
Right.

Shut up, Scribe.
Sorry, get out of here.

YouTube.
Ads yeah, so I I think that was why they did it because they're
like oh we have to do something with this right analog stick so
they're like yeah, we'll put in camera controls is it fine who
cares this game needs to come out tomorrow yeah kind of like.
Rock, You got three more games to make this month.
Today.

Yeah.
Yeah, so, OK, so let's.

Let's zip ahead to the to the
ending there, Bill, because you were you touched on it a little
bit.

So you go through the game and
you're and you're, you know, going through different.
Areas of the real.

World, you're in a Oh yeah,
you're in a a pinball machine.

Oh, I love that scene.
So much which is that wasn't cool segment.
Yeah, yeah, it's such a cool.

Idea did not expect that at all
to have like something like that.
I was so annoyed.

By the story there though,
because there's this whole big thing about Bridget's like oh
look, I have the anti serum which which freezes everybody
and I'm like, oh that sucks.

And then it's like you can all
be free.

I was like, Oh yeah, 'cause
isn't.

Isn't the whole thing like
Plastro is like trying to like solidify everybody so that
nobody's sentient anymore and they just turn into the figures
that they normally are, but they're like, oh, here's a serum
that can like cure you of that or whatever.
That's how the game starts.

Because he was apparently
solidified at the end of the first game.
I kind of forgot that happened.

If it did, it's a blink and you.
Miss it?

Yeah.
But it starts where she frees him and then that's the whole
plot as they're creating the serum and stuff.
And then this is where it's like, ha, there's the anti serum
which freezes everybody and it's like, Oh well that's
unfortunate.

OK, but then she immediately.
Frees you right after and I'm like, oh, OK, yeah, it's kind
of.

But also, by the way, the
pinball machine is is Battle

Tanks, which is it wishes it
was.

Battle Tanks.
It's just, it's like I love.

How it's just like a it almost
looks like a fan made thing because the screenshots they use
are like all the same too, yeah.

They they got.
One screenshot.

And they were like, that's.
Good.

Yeah, no, that one's good.
It shows a tank.

Yeah, I just.
Put a picture on it.

That's.
Right it it does.

Make navigating that pinball
machine level kind of a pain in the ass, cause the whole point
is you have to go through all of the the innards of it in order
to find your crew to get them out.
You know what this?

You know what this looks like?
I just realized what does it look like.
This is Patonk.

This is straight up Patonk.
Well, Patonk is.

Actual garbage.
This game is not actual garbage but.
Patonk.

For those who don't know, it's
this weird pinball game where you are the ball.
Yeah, you play.

It's a pinball.
Game where you play?

Oh, it's that.
One, it's it's it's a game.

That's really interesting idea
we talked about on the show on episode whatever.
It's a real interesting idea, but it is not executed well at
all.

I think.
I I think I suggested that like if a modern indie dev were to
take that idea and make a game out of it, it'd probably be
really cool.

Yeah.
So I could do that.

Sonic Spinball.
Question mark.

Sonic spinball isn't.
Great.

But I like that that's that's
playable.

Batonk wasn't playable, yeah.
Yeah, spinball is playable at least.
Oh, oh, I did like the level where it was the pool table and
you have to sort of like navigate like on top of it and
then you go in and you know, I thought that level design was
actually really good.

She's.
A cackle.

And then and then like. 2
seconds later he's like where is

Bridget And she's like she's
over there.

How did she twirl that assault?
Rifle with her one hand, There she is.
She's gone.

Oh no.
She's.

Gone.
Nobody watched her bolt.

The second you like, threw her
across the room, it's like, well.
No, she was.

She was.
He was twirling the the gun.

Everyone was distracted.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Look at my gun.
While she gets away, I forgot to see the CG.
Cutscene isn't here where he plays dead.
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, the PS1PS22 versions just
half straight up CG cutscenes, which for some reason emulating
them in PCs X2 for some reason they didn't always show up.
OK I understand why you didn't.

I understand why you didn't
notice Dave.

Because in the PS2 version it's
an actual CG cutscene that basically that scene there is
implying a portal runner legit.

Nice.
Nice a little.

Bit.
It's awesome it did.

Whoa.
Oh yeah, Speaking of hell, yeah,

I thought those ads were.
Going to baton twirling.

So like some.
Like predatory mode.

Some predatory.
Ass mobile game?

Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.

Yeah, so, OK, so, OK, so it
queues up Portal Runner.

OK, so if anyone didn't listen
yet or hasn't heard, we talked and got overly excited probably
for Portal Runner, which is an offshoot game that I, for me
personally had seen but had no idea it was anywhere in any way
associated with Army Men games.

Yeah, most people don't know.
That yeah, most people.

Don't know that.
Yeah, there's lots of.

Reasons for it, yeah.
And I guess there's a tease in the PS2 version for that, like
the when it ends well that.

That that tease at the end of
this game was also for it, but it's much more clear in the PS2
version.

Because it's a full CG.
Cutscene, yeah, which I.

Noticed when I was looking up,
sort of trying to find like commercials and stuff like that
for this or ads or anything like that.
There's a couple.

Of ads for.
This game in particular that are full CG, like minute long
commercials and it feels like that there actually could be a
cutscene from like the beginning of the game, for example.
I don't know if they're for sure.
And I was like, this looks kind of cool.
It kind of looks like you know what they were trying to do at
the time, late 90s sort of CG stuff.
It doesn't look great, but hey, that's that's interesting.
I'm excited to try this on the 64.
No 64 doesn't have any of that.

No, naturally.
Yeah, I was like.

But it happens.
I mean, they got it.

Running.
That's impressive enough.

Yeah, they got it running.
In three weeks and and a lunch break.
So that's that's not too.

Bad.
So I I think overall Jiggy should.
Is this the first one?

I think we said, yeah, give it a
shot.

It's pretty good.
But this one, you know, people should play it right, I think.
Yeah, I think.

It's honestly I, I wouldn't put
it too much higher than the first one.
Like we keep saying it's better, but like the first one, if I
gave it like a 3.5 out of five,

I would give this one a 3.7 out
of five like.

It's a little better, but.
It's marginally better and it's like the core gameplay for me is
like so similar.

It it it could be DLCI mean it's
like ADLC.

They're one.
They're one.

Game.
They're one game as far as I'm concerned.
I mean, realistically, they could have been.
They should have been one game.

They should have been.
One game, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.
I think if they could have fixed.
Games that are each like.

Two hours long.
Or you could have had one game.

Well, that's the other.
Thing is, if you wanna get quote, UN quote invested in
either of these games, especially I think the first
one.

Well, actually you're right.
The levels in this some of them are, are a lot shorter, but
you're not looking like you're going to invest your entire week
to it.

You know, which kind of helps
because we played these games sort of back-to-back.
So, so it's not like you're, you're not behind on your other
on your backlog if you give.

These ones a shot so.
I think though, I think this one puts a better foot forward, I
think like it's going to impress a little bit quicker because of
the way the game, the levels start.
I think the like I said, I still think that the the story was a
little bit more interesting and had a little bit more like
surprise to it, aside from the zombie stuff than the first one
did.

But.
Thrac, I think said.

It first too, but like the level
design's better in this and that's evident from like even
the first couple stages, yeah, so.
The structure in general.

Is just.
I should say I I won't say it's better, I say it actually has a
structure.

Like they put more effort.
Into actually making a game.

Like they had the idea with the
first one and then this one they kind of were like, OK, now we
can actually design something around this.
Yeah, I can actually.

Execute those ideas that we had
and didn't have two lunch breaks to to do so I do say I really
want to play the.

PS2 version though, since you
heard it and it's I don't know, it just seems like it's it might
be even more marginally better than the the three eight point.
7/3 it gets to about a 385 they got.
Yeah.

That ain't bad.
That ain't bad the the PS.

Two version definitely feels
like they put a lot more effort into it, like at least to clean
it up I think they were.

Like they saw the the hardware
they had with the PS2 and went oh thank God we're not limited
anymore.

I'm well, at least.
They did it.

Yeah, they did.
Now we can.

Accomplish our true vision,
Yeah.

Keep in mind too though.
They were also developing this for three different skews, like
because there's also the PS1 version which apparently from
what I read controls better than the N64 but worse than the PS2.
I don't really know how you how you control drastically worse
than this.

Not that it's terrible, but like
what do you do to screw it up because it's so simple.
Like I don't tank controls.

I don't know.
Yeah, I, I maybe it's like how?

Snappy.
It'll feel because especially with this being like a like,
yeah, with this being like a third person shooter, it needs
to feel tighter and more responsive because you don't
want to like, have somebody shooting you and you have to
slowly turn around so you can aim and hit them.
That that never feels good.

Yeah, you snap back and it.
Cuts immediately.

The PS2 also just kind of runs
better, but that makes sense because the hardware is just
better.

Yeah.
Yeah, these games needed the

Emotion Engine.
Hell yeah 100.

And 28 bits supposedly.
I won't say that this.

Ran particularly worse or better
on N64 either than the first game I put it on.
I mean, again, it's it's on the

OverDrive it that it did
recognize that I have the expansion pack.
So I tried it on the high res version or whatever they called
it in this one.

I ran into a few areas that were
really chunky that were like, did you switch high res?
Off and it was better.

I did for on a different level.
So there's one particular level.

I think it might actually even
be that same level I was talking about earlier or a little bit
after that.

ANYWAYS, it's one of the outdoor
levels in the in the army men world.
I can't remember exactly which one it was.
I was like, oh, this is really getting a lot like, thank God I
only had to play this level twice.
Suddenly died one time.

Whatever.
I did turn it off after that, and I there was still some slow
down, but like, it's just so unfortunate that like at the
tail end of the life cycle of this console, that, oh, use
this, the expansion pack's supposed to help so much.
And there's only a few months left in the life of this console
as far as, you know, game releases go, and it's still just
struggling.

Like, it's just that sucks,
Yeah.

I wouldn't blame the.
Hardware I would blame the developer in.
This.

Case.
Yeah, yeah.

Only so many weekends available
in 2000.

It's 52.
Well, 51 after.

They made this, I guess.
Yeah.

And then of course.
Oh, so you got PS2?

Whatever.
Thrac will really quickly touch on it.
We did a little extra homework as well.
We played a little bit of the

Game Boy Color game.
Oh God.

Yeah, yeah, do tell.
Do tell, Sir.

Do tell, OK?
So I did not, I did not play a lot of it.
I was like, you know what, let me just see what it is.
I load it up.

I hear some of the worst music
I've ever heard in my life is bad.
Like like the the Game Boy Color has a really good like, you
know, sound processor.

They do not utilize it here.
Like is awful.

And then you push start and then
they do some talking.

Who cares?
And they're like, I pick a character and I was like Vicki.
And so I pick Vicki and next thing I know I am on like it's
top down and I'm on a motorcycle just driving aimlessly shooting
people and I'm like what the fuck is this?
I, I did that for like 5 minutes and just went I'm good man.
I don't need to, I don't need to keep playing this.
You mean you don't want to?

Hear.
Oh wait, hold on.

Oh, you got.
You got more for me.

I got.
I got the.

Gameplay.
Oh, hit me, hit me.

Oh, that's really.
Loud.

Oh boy, there we go.
That's better.

So.
Bad they had.

Bass and drums, yeah, that's.
Pretty much it is wrong with

Sarge's bass.
What is going on there?

Oh, oh God.
What is this helicopter?

Can you tell this is a
helicopter?

It's.
Like.

Max.
Hedrum.

Or is this like RC program if?
It was bad.

Yeah, that.
That's what I was doing.

I was like on this motorcycle.
And I'm like, oh and it does not control well at all.
It's.

So inconsistent, it's crazy.
And there's no there's there's no sound unless you're shooting
during the actual like the sounds on, it's not muted right
now.

The game is on, nothing's
happening.

We're live.
There you go, there's some part.

OK, that's looking great.
Oh God.

She's done well for.
Herself, she's got a motorcycle.

And a speed boot real it's not a
bad.

Looking game, but color game.
It's not.

It's not.
Terrible looking.

They have a little cutscenes in
between whatever, but no, I, I thrac's right.
It's it's not great.

It's pretty bad.
It's not.

It's not.
Great.

Yeah, it definitely feels.
Like, they made it because someone said, oh, you should
probably make a portable one because, you know, we should
make games for the Game Boy

Color.
And they're like, yeah, everybody.
'S doing it guys.

Yeah, it was.
Like the GBA was was not that far off at this point, no.
Why is the?

Milk on fire.
Hey, yeah, this is an ad we have pulled up.
It says Cold War.

The fridge is open and milk is
on fire.

Everybody and.
Where's Vicki?

Why is Vicki not in any of these
switches?

Oh.
Did you, did you guys notice in that commercial when he says
fire in the hole and then he throws it in the Turkey's
bottle?

Yes.
And he's a leg man.

And then what does he say when
he opens up the yogurt?

He's like, oh, chick food or
something?

Yeah.
This is her gaze also.

I I'm pretty sure, I'm pretty
sure that they couldn't afford

Jim Cummings for the
commercials.

The commercial, yeah.
Oh, that's.

The other thing the.
Voice work, I think is exactly the same.
Yeah, I know.

And every male character.
Again, see, I didn't.

Notice it in the first one, but
then when we when I played the second one I had that in my head
and I noticed it.

Oh, your plastro.
Sounds like Plastro, sounds like

Pete.
Like he really does.

You know, the, the, the.
Good to go the Oh yeah.

Oh, and then Vicki, every time
she picks something up, she's like, yeah, like she's just so
sexual about everything.

And it's so it makes no fucking
sense.

This this.
Game these games are like the epitome of late 90s early 2000s
in a lot of ways I I even think.

I mean, maybe not, Maybe I was
too young to really notice the difference between like, let's
say 95 and 2000.

But I feel like if you look
back, if we're now looking back 30 years or so on these, I feel
like the mentality of of like, let's say this particular game
mostly because of the Vicky stuff and of.
Of blue and things like.

I feel like we're we were kind
of past that or starting to get past it and they were just going
for it, you know, but I could be wrong.
I could be.

I feel like the late.
I feel like the late 90s, early 2000s was kind of the peak of
that stuff.

Yeah, I'm, I think.
It wasn't until we got.

Further into the 2000s where
yeah, it was definitely.

Further.
Where?

Where It was much?
Yeah, much more exactly, I think.
You need another 5-10 years on that, even 10.
Oh, OK.

I was maybe 5 years.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But it like.
I was only a.

Child then So what do I exactly?
Exactly, that's why I don't quite remember it.
I was probably all for like, yeah, 60 army men, lady.
I will.

I will say one of the 14. 1.
Of the.

Formations of like when I think
when we watched the the the trailer, we were off to the side
over there.

I noticed where it was laid out
like Vicky's boobs were just chilling at the bottom of the
screen and I was like, oh, that's nice.
I'm gonna.

Put Oh, that's nice.
I was like.

OK.
Oh yeah.

Oh.
Yeah.

Well, it's it's.
I'm going to find it now.

I got it now I got to now I got
to find Army army girl boobs.

You're 14 all.
Over again.

Yeah, look at that.
Here I am.

Here I am.
Saying I didn't know anything and I haven't changed.
That was when we were.

On the side, not the at the top.
Oh I see.

Like.
That right down.

At the.
Bottom of the screen.

Boys, it's supper.
Time go hungry for some green.

Versus Tan Bite this new army
man Sarge's Heroes 2.

Fire in the hole that's.
For.

PlayStation Two.
PlayStation.

Game console, Nintendo 64 and
Game Way Color everyone.

I've always been a big man.
Army man.

Sarge's Heroes 2 Real combat
plastic man.

Good to go.
Yeah, I've put that.

Crosshair on the game way color.
One, just shoot it, yeah.

Yeah, if I saw this trailer back
in the day, I would have been like, mom, give me that, please.
Yeah, it looks so cool.

Yeah, it looks.
Cool, we have army men at.

Home I I have.
A probably do somewhere.

I I had a a couple maybe?
But not it wasn't really a thing for me.
I'd say I, I.

Had a small little tub full of
them so and they were cool.

Yeah, they're fine.
I I know one of my cousins had all blue ones.
I do remember that.

No see.
Mine were mine were green and tan, Mine were green and grey.
Yes, Oh yes.

Mine were two actually, yes,
that's right.

They did have grey.
Yeah, there's I had like maybe 20 or 30.
Like it wasn't that much.

It was it was just a probably
the same thing, probably like just a small bucket of it or
something.

So yeah, yeah, I got like.
It was like the bag or something like that that you'd get for
like 2 bucks or something, yeah.

If it was around this time, I
think we're kind of past.

Like army men were.
A thing in like the 70s, you know, like early. 90s.
Around the 90s.

I think they were just that
thing that like you'd see at the grocery store, like off to the
side for like a parent to like just grab real quick and get the
kid to shut up.

I.
I I think they had maybe I think they may have had a teeny bit of
a resurgence because if you remember in Toy Story, yeah, you
know, the little green guys are there.
And that probably made some people go, Oh yeah, those
things.

So it was probably connected to
that.

People wanted that specific.
Bucket.

Because I did as a kid.
Yeah, I did.

I.
Did too.

It's like every.
Toy commercial.

Those goddamn ice blocks that
you never could get.

Ice blocks.
Oh, in like any toy.

Commercial they always have
those like blocks in the background that they're doing
like the karate moves on and breathe yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
yeah.

With this little disclaimer at
the bottom saying these do not come with the toy, they're not
part of the toy, Yeah, but.

Am I buying them for?
Yeah, like, like cereals, part of a complete breakfast.
Like it's the cereal and then there's oranges and then there's
actual food beside it instead of just sugar.
I'm not going to.

Lie.
Army Men is like a game that would totally be in a cereal
box, yeah.

I could actually put the army
men in it, like, yeah.

Yeah, it's it's Checks Quest.
So Checks Quest's older brother.

Yeah, nice.
I love that that got a.

Remastered.
Unbelievable.

And and these.
Don't.

It's a shame, yeah.
These could these could use it.

I think like maybe tank ish
controls is is OK, but like you know, you don't have to do
something vastly different, but like if it looked different ran
a little smoother.

You have similar ideas.
This would be the same game but like make another one and make
it modern.

Hell yeah.
Like is it?

You know if you.
Remake.

One and two together in like
like a modern sensibility as like, just like a third person
cover shooter.

It'd be fine, yeah.
Yeah.

Maybe worth your time for sure.
Is it bad that it?

Took me until now to realize
Vicki's on the cover.

You just now saw that?
I didn't even notice.

Her Yeah, Plastro.
Plastro.

Plastro on the milk face.
See I I can't.

I can't not help stare.
At the the plastro missing on the milk carton.
Yep.

Yeah, well, having.
He's who's that cartridge has.

Led me to find out that he's
doing like an arm gesture that I couldn't tell in this version.
Oh, he's like, got his.

His yeah, 'cause they like.
They adjusted where the Yeah, the cropping, Yeah.
Oh yeah, 'cause you show 54.

Boxes would be.
Horizontal.

That's true, yeah.
So they could show Vicki in the back.
That's why his arm's not there.

That's probably why.
And plaster, yeah.

Yeah, why?
You really want to buy this game?
I'm.

Trying to get that.
I'm trying to get that.

Tomb Raider crowd 'cause it's
the prequel the.

Portal runner, that's why, yeah.
Yes, the best game ever made.

I do love on the.
Back that Bridget's like, overshadowed by Plastro and his
massive beer gut.

Yeah.
It's like that's that.

That's for the ladies back.
Yeah.

Right there.
Yeah.

You gotta have it somewhere.
He's like Doctor Robotnik.

And then she's like Shigo, yeah.
He's kind of a Robotnik.

Kind of kind of, you know, look,
mentality, all those things.

Yeah.
Very, very similar.

Yeah.
He's a.

He's a.
Giant talking egg.

Yeah, I forgot.
Playing this, I forgot how much of a comedy villain he was.
Like he's not very threatening, no.
No, no, it's just sort.

Of a punch line kind of thing
used as an excuse to have enemies.
That's pretty much it, especially in the first one.
All right, boys, Army men,

Surge's Heroes 2 and 1.
So if you want to hear us talk about 1 and more 3D O, 3D O
experiences where you'll find that Surge's Heroes 2, we just
chat about here.

Check out both games.
Give them both a shot.

You'll probably get something
out of either of them.

Bill Thrack.
Where can everybody keep along with the 3D O experience?
Well, you can find it over at the the Superpod network in
particular, it's on every podcasting platform available.
It's the three DU experience with Bill and Thrack.
But if you just type in the three DO experience, you'll find
it easily.

If you just type in three DO,
you'll probably find it.

We're like the only three DO
podcast.

We are the. #13DO podcast in the
world.

There you go.
Nice jiggy, as of us sitting here right now, I believe you
now have perfect dark in your rear view mirror.
I did it.

I accomplished it.
I beat the whole game on Perfect

Agent.
Take that, moving on to Star Fox

Adventures.
Oh, is that next?

On Perfect.
Agent, I'm perfect.

Agent yes.
That's one fox.

Speaking of stimping.
For video game characters, yeah,

I'm kidding.
Sure.

Sure.
You know my favorite like.

Little dumb fact about
adventures is the the quote UN quote encounter with the the
villain of that game that doesn't actually end up being
anything.

He's not coded to be able to
attack you, so if you just stand there, he'll just walk in you
and not do anything.

Really.
Yeah.

Like if you don't go.
Far enough to trigger the cutscene, he will walk towards
you and just he can't attack you.
So he just kind of walks into you and plays and does nothing.
It's.

Amazing.
Have you seen the so I played

Dinosaur Planet.
I played through that on an on a stream entirely and you get to
the last boss, which is Dracore, which is like the red dragon
dude.

And in dinosaur planet, they
never finished the the programming.
So he's literally like one hit and he's beaten.
But the thing about it is it it hypes up.
It's like a Dragon Ball Z style like this.
He just hypes everything up.

He's like a God.
It's like space, like planets are like revolving around him.
You go to like this other dimension, you're like, holy
crap, this is amazing.

And then you just like shoot him
once and he's like, it's.

Amazing.
That's somehow better than the the final boss of Adventures.
Yeah, that's.

Great, I love that.
Talk about getting some some comedy work out of 10 out of 10
out.

Of your game, yeah, that's.
Great.

I love that.
That's awesome.

Nice.
OK, so Starfox adventures and stuff.
OK, Jiggy, look back on YouTube.

That's you can find your yeah,
yeah, that's your stuff.

Remember 64 across the board as
far as finding us on YouTube and on your podcast feed.
Of course, the console creatures family we're a part of too.
So check out PlayStation

Generation and the creature
cast.

We're talking about a little bit
more modern games, but I was on

PlayStation generation or just a
couple weeks ago.

I've been playing Arc Raiders a
decent amount and I played a good, good time with some
friends too.

And that's the game we want to
play Co-op.

That's all I got to say about
it.

And I get used to having a very
complicated, overwhelming inventory system.
Resident Evil would be jealous.

That's all I got to say.
So.

And yeah.
And coming up, me and you have a few fun holiday type ideas
coming up to end off 2025 and going to 2026.
But until next time, everybody, thank you so much for joining
us.

And we'll see everybody next
time.

Ciao.
Goodbye.

Bye.
Bye.

See you.
Later.