Level 21 - The Monday Night Wars, Brother!

It's gonna put some butts in the
seat.

Welcome to remember 64 where
this week.

We become the New World Order,
brother.

Welcome to remember, 64.
Welcome to the show, everyone.

My name is David.
Angelo and if I ever go

Hollywood, I won't be calling up
the hulkster.

I'm going with staying baby.
Yeah, that's just a somewhat vague quip about her level 21
games, WCW versus n wo World

Tour and even more specifically
WCW NWO Revenge, a new guest will be joining the show
momentarily to talk about the game and I'm very excited to
have them on.

It was his idea to play these
games and to play Revenge specifically and it's going to
be a blast to talk about before that though.
Always can check us out.

Patreon.com slash remember 64
show where you can get all these episodes days.
Early help us shape the show, going forward, and even get some
bonus content, like, hearing, what else we're playing outside
of the Nintendo 64, as well.

If patreon isn't your thing.
No problem, whatsoever.

Give us a rating on your podcast
app of choice Spotify, Apple more specifically than anything
else.

But all that is always very,
very helpful.

We're not in this to make money
or any of that stuff.

So if a little rating will get
us up there rankings a little bit more, people can hear the
awesome stuff that we're doing then all the better.
So thanks very much for that.

And without further Ado, let's
bust out the history books, everyone I'm learning.
It's time to head back to

November 1997 and October of
1998.

Now, admittedly like some other
sports games and wrestling games.
There's an a ton to go off of when it comes to the history of
the development of the games themselves.
But WCW versus n wo World Tour.

Was thq's first attempt at
making a championship title game for the N64.
Console.

It was also the North American
version of virtual pro wrestling that was released in Japan and
also featured some WCW characters.
But I'm not going to dive too too deep into that as Japanese
titles.

Like this will likely be
something that we will be covering on, remember 64 as the
show continues.

So look out for that.
Now, speaking of the roster and characters in it Hall of Famer,
Ric Flair is a somewhat surprising addition to World
Tour because right around this time, he left WCW to go back to
the WWF and became a Hall of

Famer from there for years and
years to come all this.

While the two companies were
battling it out for Monday night wrestling Supremacy.
More on that in just a second virtual pro wrestling to which
is the sequel to The previously mentioned game in Japan, also
known as the predecessor to WCW

NWO Revenge.
All of these games are all being made around the same time and
build off of Ideas, as time went on.
Now Revenge was released less than a year after World Tour in
North America and really tries to throw the player into the
epic battle between the two groups.
We are going to talk about that more in a moment but there was
more going on around WWF and

WCW.
It wasn't just about what the show was itself.
So to catch you up briefly, at least a little bit.
This was essentially the battle for Monday night, TV ratings
throughout the 90s.

Yes.
They've got their show in the can their shells been taped
later tonight.

Mick Foley, who wants wrestled.
Here's Cactus Jack is going to win their world title.
Now, WWF reign supreme, for the most part for years, but incomes
WCW, and Eric Bischoff who creates a type of direct
competition.

That really hadn't been seen in
years.

The sports entertainment fan
base became more and more splits and this was more than They Coke
versus Pepsi type of rivalry.

This was to juggernauts fighting
for money, TV time, and ultimately talent that would
make them the Victor.

In the end, long story short
wrestlers like Hulk Hogan made their way to WCW and even became
what is called a heel or a bad guy with Hogan doing that.
I mean, anything can happen on

WCW, why wouldn't you want to
watch it moves like this made the Monday night Wars.
A spicy addition to an already spicy as hell, entertainment,
Venture Inn.

Pro wrestling on TV.
Now that's a very, very basic and short way of going through
it, you can definitely find more detailed and more knowledgeable
people to talk about it.

But that's essentially what it
came down to.

In the end though, it mostly
ended.

When this happened, Vince
McMahon purchased, I own my own competition for the first time
ever and sports entertainment history.
This broadcast is not only being

Here on TNN.
It is also being seen across

Turner, Network television Time.
Warner is practically begging me to buy WCW and I have agreed.
All right, back to the games, both of these titles, both World
Tour and revenge sold, great on the Nintendo 64 Revenge, placing
27th all time for the console and Wilt or not far behind at
37th.

A total of mated, 3.2 million
copies worldwide between these two games.
To put that in perspective,

Revenge alone, sold more than
the Heavy Hitters.

Like the first two Turok games
Kirby 64 Mario Golf and Paper.

Mario, remember 64 is proud and,
oh, so happy to be a part of the

Tokyo.
Beat podcast Network, Alex.

Hi.
I'm Ray.

How would you explain our show?
No more.

Are you a nerd having trouble
transitioning from your 20s to 30s to 40s and Beyond age?
With us?

Not at us, Mardi gra, but blow.
Are you tired of the man?

Keeping you down.
If you see something, say something.
Do you enjoy the family?

Computer capsule Computing?
We got them all.

No more Whoppers.
We out live to the queen.

She said it couldn't be done.
No I'm fading.

Come back.
I can't do this alone.

Do you enjoy number munchers and
his numbers?

What you call?
Then listen to No More Whoppers, only on the Tokyo beat Network.
All right, let's move on to welcome our guests.
Let's talk about the N64 and these awesome wrestling titles
WCW and wo World Tour and revenge.
All right, as always everyone to remember 64, it's time to have a
special guest on.

And this time, I am very, very
excited to have an old friend from the back.
In my day podcast, he's been a guest on that a couple times.
I was a guest on the GameCube was cool podcast at least once I
think.

But but Mike is here bike,
welcome to the show.

How are you, man?
Thanks Dave.

I'm doing great.
And I'm glad to be here to talk about a console, that's not the
GameCube, that's not the case.

Exactly, I have had your, your
co-host from the think a few podcasts on a couple of times.
As we've said, I've said with

Neil, I feel like every time
I've had them on, it's been a racing game.
So he's almost like the racing guy.
So next time you get to a racing game, I might have to have it
back on but you guys also have as of this recording, you guys
also have something exciting coming up because you did an
awesome thing.

You actually It wrapped up the
GameCube library and went through every single game, which
is amazing.

And if anyone wants to listen to
it, the GameCube was cool.

Podcast is so much fun.
These guys did such an amazing job, go back and just find the
game.

You want to our series of games,
you want to listen to they got a covered which is great but now
that that's over you guys have a fun New project coming up in
2023.

Let's let's talk about that a
little bit.

Sure.
Yeah we're going to be talking about a bunch of other games.
And movies and albums and kind of doing similar stuff for you
guys do.

I'm back in my day, just talking
about, you know, Nostalgia and the podcast going to change the
name.

It can't just be GameCube is
cool anymore, unfortunately.

But it's going to be unlocking.
What was cool.

So things are still going to be
cool.

And yeah, we're just going to go
back on some Nostalgia, gonna focus on mainly that era late
90s, early 2000s, the era of N64 and GameCube because that's what
we know.

That's what we want to talk
about.

Our first episode is going to be
Kirby's Return to Dreamland.

I know that's not an early 2000s
game but we talked about we would always bring that that
game up a lot on the show because there was not a real
Kirby game on the GameCube and we were always lamenting that
and return Dreamland was supposed to be a GameCube game
and it just kept getting pushed back and eventually was on the
Wii.

And of course, there's the
deluxe edition that's coming out for the switch very soon as
well.

So that's gonna be our first
episode.

And we'll also have some revisit
some, the GameCube episodes, the early ones.
We did when we didn't know how to podcast yet.
So just just getting started.

It's all good, man.
That's that's fair.

That's awesome.
Honestly, I'm excited.

I'm happy.
You guys have awarded yourself a few months off which is nice.
To like, we were saying before we record, it's good to have
just a little breather every once in a while, and, and it's
cool man.

It's exciting to get that
started.

So I'm happy for you guys.
That's a lot of fun.

So so check that that out.
What's the name of the podcast again?
So everyone can hear it unlocking.
What was cool unlocking?

What was cool will be Coming up
later this year in the spring of 2023.
If you are hearing this before that and if you he ran after, go
find it on your podcast for you.

So, okay, let's get into the
N64.

As I always do with new people
that are on the show, what's your experience with a Nintendo?
64 Neil has told me there's mixed feelings about it between
the two of you and between yourself and and just sort of
how things were growing up around that time.
Let's, let's talk about it.

What's your experience the N64
before we dive into some Saline action.
Sure.

So, so, the running gag that
Neil and I have a lot, is the fact that I hate the N64, and
now, that's kind of came.

Welcome to the show kind of game
for me, just not having as much of experience with the N64, and,
of course, I actually don't hate it.
I actually really like the in support.
I think I was a little jealous actually, because I didn't get
to have won my first Home.

Console was the GameCube.
I didn't have home consoles before that, my parents were
really into Just the handheld stuff.
They didn't really want me playing a lot of games at home
in front of the TV or something about being in front.
I know.

I know, I hear ya.
I mean, I have a gay boys and stuff too.
So it's like here.

Yeah, I was five years old and I
had a Game Boy, like, you is, that's amazing.
Yeah, but they cared about the

TV stuff, so, great.
I only got to play in 64.

It friends houses, I didn't
actually know Neil when the N64 was said at the time, but I
lived It's like down the street from a kid and his older brother
and they had an N64 and of course, was a classic older
brother has all these violent video games and all these other
things over and play them and you don't tell your parents.
And, and that was my experience kind of growing up.
Initially was, was playing and 64 at friends houses and it was
really strange to me with the controller.
Like that was the biggest thing that really kind of took me for
a run.

I was like, what is this?
I don't have to, but she holding a Gameboy and then going to that
Yeah, it was, and I had played the PS1 a little bit, too, like,
right on.

And I'm just like what this is
so strange, like, why are there three hands here?
But I we played Smash Bros, that was the main thing we would play
over there and we played wrestling games and the one that
I specifically remember is

Revenge and I remember because I
was really really into wrestling at this time I probably played
it in like 2000 when wrestling,

I was 8 years old.
This like the most hype you can be as an eight-year-old is
playing wrestling games.

And watching Monday, Nitro and
Monday to.

Yeah.
So it was like that was like our life and I don't really remember
a lot of other games on the N64 other than like Star Fox and
some of the other ones, but I didn't really even go back to
the NCC were very much either.

As I got older for one, a lot of
the games, as I'm sure you are realizing and has you're playing
them are kind of tough to go back to with the back Enos.
It's a very good Miss.

It's very hit and miss.
Yeah.

Because there are yeah, of
course some Like Conkers Bad Fur

Day that are so much fun to go
back to you today.

But a game like GoldenEye in my
opinion at least is actually not that fun to go and play during a
because it's there just are especially in the shooting.
Genre like it just comes so far and it's hard to go back 25
years.

This, there's this big and big
or or just set standard at a certain point and it's hard to,
it's okay to go a little bit further back, look, even the
GameCube games like it, you know, there's a way to go back
to those and It's, it feels pretty damn good.
Even with a controller that may not be.
That is that feels a typical now.
But like there's a certain level of standard of feel and play
there.

So I see what you mean.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Yeah.
So it's, it's, it's funny to like kind of go back to a couple
of these games now, as an adult, going playing on the N64 online
service on the switch, which no

WWF games are on, which is 90
said about playing stuff.

Like pilot wings of this game is
so good, like yeah.

How good this game is as hard as
a very hard game.

And, and the difficulty levels
that you kind, of forgot as a kid, like, playing Majora's
Mask, I remembered one the 3D's after had playing it at my
friend's house and somehow beating it like I can't.
I'm like, how did like eight-year-old me have any idea?
How to play this game?

No, especially that hard.
Especially yeah.

Yeah.
So it's really funny to go back to like, NCC for nowadays.
But yeah, that's kind of my my history with it.
It's not a large history.

I've only Played maybe about 10,
or 11 games on.

Yeah, before and and I don't
hate it, it just wanna just got to make sure that that's
covered.

Yeah, no, that's funny.
Hey, you gotta, you gotta own it.
You gotta just run with the running gags, you just gotta go
with it.

That's fine.
It's all good.

Like, for me, my whole thing is,
I mean, I it's probably not the best Mario Kart game but I think
the best Murr, I quote, unquote, think the best Mario Kart game
is the first one but really, I mean 8 is the best one like You
really look at it.

Like telling this Nest version
is very hard today, especially, if you did not grow up with that
like really, oh, I just got.

Yeah, I just think I have so
much Nostalgia for me.

It's just like jumps up all
these seats.

It is that fair?
Probably not.

But here I am.
Whatever it is what it is.

All right.
Let's talk wrestling man.

Because there are a decent
amount of wrestling games by THQ

Aki.
The companies that the put a lot of these games together on the
Nintendo 64, not all of them, but most of the ones that you
would think of one of my favorite games of all time is
WWF.

No, mercy.
I think that is like the

Pinnacle of wrestling games.
Almost pretty much of all time.

So I'm always comparing
wrestling games to that.

It was the one that I died at
the time.

I think it costs, 80 or $90 for
the cartridge and that was one of the games.
Like you were saying similarly we're your parents.
Wouldn't you know, want you to sit in front of the TV or have
like certain rules when you're a certain age?
They Want me to buy wrestling game.
So they said, if you really want to, you need to get the money
for that and to get together 80 or $90 when your whole the site
the time, maybe 13.

Maybe when I came out, roughly
around there like that, it's not easy.
You know, how many, how many loonies I found on the on the
school in the school parking lot but whatever.
I put it together and I got that game and I loved it but there's
a lot of choice out there and this WCW, I guess there's a pair
work.

I played a little bit of both
but World Tour and revenge are, you know, the predecessor in the
sequel.

But revenge is mostly what we're
talking about here.

Because I will say right now
that if you compare, the two revenge is the go-to, it's got
to be like, it's just it just improves on everything that
World Tour was.

Whether it's the music, whether
it's the way, the characters look, whether it is the ring,
what characters are in.

It also changes obviously
because it's like a year later.

So the roster changes, So you
said, you played this a lot WCW

NWO Revenge, you know, what was
this?

I guess it was over at your
friend's place where you doing lots of the multiplayer action.
I guess that's pretty much what it was.
That's basically all we played but just multiplayer tag, team
played, I would sometimes like myself, clear the cruiserweight
ones because I knew all those guys, I was one of the big
reasons I want to play that nice but like, for me, it just was it
was interesting to go back and look at the history of WWE.
You see W and just kind of go back to that time when there
wasn't the Monday night Wars, for a couple of years there
because I remember watching

Monday, Nitro a lot.
My, my dad was really into wrestling but like not in like a
not in like a way where he would take me to wrestlemanias and
stuff.

It just was like, interested in
it.

Yeah.
And II was like, I was like doing research, you got me down
a rabbit hole when you a great come on this episode.
Hey, I did the same thing I did.

Did a lot of research and like
it was really interesting about like Nintendo's own relationship
with wrestling because there's a lot of exclusive wrestling games
on not only the N64 but also the

GameCube to had four or five
WWE.

I guess at the time.
Yeah, whines on.

Just for the GameCube exclusive,
which is yeah, pretty crazy to me.
I remember when we were doing those episodes, I was, I was
pretty surprised and yeah, looking at the NCC for when we
have no World Tour, we have wars

Zone.
We have Revenge.

Obviously we have attitude
attitude.

Nitro Mayhem backstage, assault
Wrestlemania 2000.

No mercy.
And most of those were actually exclusive to.
Yeah yeah, yeah, pretty quietly.

Yeah.
And I was like, looking, I'm like why like, why was this?
Yeah.

And, and from what I could find,
one of the big reasons was that

Nintendo consoles had such a
large user base among younger, kind of children and teenagers,
which was the demographic for wrestling games and wrestling
in.

Earl and 64.
In particular had just such a large library of these kind of
like family friendly games almost and it was very
appealing.

I guess the Publishers who
wanted to have wrestling games targeted towards that kind of
audience I guess.

So just the control scheme like
having exactly that.

That controller even though it's
a weird-ass controller for three hand, and the people, it
actually worked really well for the kind of like Combos and
almost Button Mash and that you would end up having to do.
It's amazing how Well, it works because like I think the
intuition is for most people I would say it's like oh it's got
a joystick and I'm going to put my hand on the joystick but
really you're playing with the d-pad, right?
Yeah, I default to that because

I'm just so used to it from when
I was younger.

So like it's fine for me to pick
up this game and be like, Oh,

I'm just going to use the d-pad
because I just assumed that's what the controls were.
Even though, I think I have, I had very, very little experience
with the WCW games.

But I knew that it was made by
the same company as the ones that I loved from.
Wrestlemania 2000 and no mercy.

And I'm like, well, I'm just
gonna, I'm just pick it up.

I'm gonna play the d-pad and
like Gap.

Boom, jump in and that's it.
But so easy.

It's so easy and it rocks.
And I think you're right.

Actually, I wanted to touch on
the point where you're like, the

Publishers wanted to make sure
like this was the console that they were sort of gearing for or
shooting for.

And just the fact that there are
four controllers, just the fact that you have tag teams you know
every week competing, it's a perfect.
Excuse to have four players, and four people sitting and playing
your game.

It doesn't matter if they all
own the game or they all, or just one of them does, like, you
can go and have a good time regardless.
Because there's always, it is always a way to have all four
controllers involved if you wanted to.
So I think that's in itself completely works.
So this is, it's huge.

Yeah, did you have you said you
recognized a lot of the characters?
A lot of them were wrestlers was their go-to or a couple of go
twos Of course.

So yeah, I kind of had different
go to use depending on what you know, Clay and I guess we were
in I guess you could say because there's sixty three characters.
I think in this game, that's one of the things that blew my mind
as a kid was, it's really wild.

You have to remember I had just
come from playing Smash Bros and

C4 which at the time had
nothing.

Yeah.
So I was like, that's a lot.

Like and then you go to this,
which is just stupid the amount of People in this like and and
even though today, I'm looking at the list, I'm like, oh my
God, it's like the name drops her crazy because you kind of
forget who WCW had the time.

Yeah, this is we're kind of all
over the place too, and of course, the NWO stuff that was
going on.

But for me, I would always do
how come Hollywood Hogan and the time, because I just, I knew him
from watching old wrestling videos that my dad had.
He was a big Hulk Hogan fan.

He loved Andre the Giant as
well.

So he has like the, the
WrestleMania whatever.

That was when he like opens
slams, not one.

I thought was just like they
might be one.

That's gonna say, I think,
actually, it's well.

And so I always really liked
Hulk Hogan growing up and I had my little Hulk Hogan action
figures.

I was a big fan of the Big Show
as well.

Yes, picture was so good.
Usually, they're taking on the

Andre, the Giant Persona almost
is the Giant in this game.

Yeah, Macho Man.
Randy Savage.

Again, all goes back to Hawk
Hogan with their kind of view that they were having.
In.

I forget the whole thing but he
became Hollywood because he was like, fighting really?
I don't know.

I don't know, thinks.
I mean this is, is it really matter?
I mean, it's like, we gotta make

Hogan bad, I do know some of the
rabbit hole that I went down.

Obviously, this is less about
the game than it is about, just what happened was that?
Like they asked sting to be him essentially.
So either the company wanted to pick, either him or sting to be,
they offered it to either them, to be the bad guy, to be NWO,
essentially, or the Leader of

NWO and sting said, no, he's
like hell, no, I'm not doing that.
So it's kind of strange feel like it would, it would yeah.
Suit him a little bit, but it is interesting that I think it's
more interesting than when you really think about it.
That Hogan did it because he was always for 15 years leading up
to that point the, like the good guy like he is, you know, eat
your Wheaties, good guy, Hulk

Hogan, right?
And then all of a sudden, he just turns It's so the exact
storyline reason.

I can't pinpoint.
Exactly why.

But he just, I mean that's
usually what happens when there's like a heel turn like
unless someone I don't know punches you in the face it's
like I just I'm just going to be bad guy because F this but
that's fine.

It's mid 90s, it's fine.
The one character that I also played as for because those are
all NWO ones I was mentioning there.
Yeah.

CW CW one that I played as the
most is definitely Diamond

Dallas Page do yeah.
He be only because he was actually one of the cheapest
ones you could use because he had three different versions of
his Diamond Cutter.

Oh, I didn't know that our
fault.

Yeah, crazy, huh?
That's awesome.

Yeah, that's, that's the other
thing with these with these games, all of them really is
that the finishers were always a ton of fun, you know, I think
the sort of energy bar, or

Spirit bar, depending on, which
one you're playing at.

Yeah, yeah.
I think the We have funds were energy and then this one was
Spirit like, yeah, but every time they did it like I put, so
I played both, I played World

Tour and played Revenge.
Definitely spent more time in

Revenge for sure.
Just because it just felt better like some of the moves, like
even even like simple ones like

Hogan's big boot or a choke slam
or whatever felt like a little bit off and World Tour and then
just like, you know, 11 months later when this game came out,
they really like fine-tuned all the animations Everything was
much more accurate and like, oh, wow, this is automatically, I
felt like my first match.

I just played, who did I play
as?

Oh, Rey Mysterio jr.
Which by the way, Rey Mysterio.

So hell yeah.
I'm going to just do that.

I love us.
I always loved the high-flying characters in these games are
just all the WCW for ones.

I believe they were.
Yeah.

And that Clump.
Exactly.

Yeah, so I was like, oh, I'm
gonna try him and recognized probably a couple of his moves
from you know, later, WWE WWF.

Stuff.
But that match lasted like three minutes.
I just played some random kind of this whatever.
But the like all the moves felt better my automatically like.
Wow, this is just a whole other thing.
So the the the funny part I think I played at one point
against, I remember what

Guerreros kid's name was.
So it's, it's not Eddie jr.

Is it?
No, no.

It's I literally had it up here.
Oh yeah.

Chavo Chavo Chavo.
Chavo Guerrero.

Yeah, so he walks out with a
t-shirt that says, my favorite wrestlers Eddie Guerrero.
Yeah.

This is amazing.
I don't remember if that was actually a shirt that they wore
anyone War like this alert, so I didn't recognize him when he
first walked out of.

Like, that's a great t-shirt and
then the name popped up on the bottom, I'm like, this is
genius, I love it, so funny.

So yeah, so how did it feel
playing the game?

Like now like, dude I know we
sort of said, like, you know, the controls work and everything
but did it feel Feel like it made sense, and if L feel good
to kind of go back to it, this many years later, honestly, it
did.

And that was really surprising
to me.

I was like, kind of because it
was one of those things that I had a bunch of friends.
I remember going to University, and one of the things we were
talking about was games, obviously, and one of those like
ones that you would always bring up, would be like WCW, like
Griffin's.

Like that's like, the game.
And like, it's so good and you just like, kind of like, keep
that going.

Right?
And without planning it, because you're just in your head, you're
like, it's a great game.

I don't want to spoil it and
because sometimes, you think these games are great, you go
back and like, oh yeah, this is terrible. 100% 100%.
But this was the seamlessness of the controls was the biggest
thing for me that I was like, wow.
Like this is, this is so easy to just pick up and play and I find
a lot of these.

Even the GameCube games that I
would go back to.

I had to like, go into the
settings and modify everything.

So, try and get myself Myself in
the zones.

Like play it like a lot of
shooters for GameCube error, for example, all use, I forget, I
think it's called like the south paw control scheme where it's
like, you are moving the wrong.

It's like the c-stick is the one
that's moving the camera and yeah not moving you.
Yeah.

It just like it's all reversed,
right?

Yeah.
He's Call of Duty based in revolutionize, the entire thing,
right?

And I was kind of waiting for
this for for revenge and I was like oh wow like I know exactly
what to do the d-pad.

Like yes, like so good on here.
R and L do Same thing.

It's just like everything's
yeah.

And it was, it was weird.
The muscle memory like clicked right away.
I had so much fun playing it the world.
Like the one thing that I actually didn't remember.
Yeah, not being in there was commentators.
There is no commentators.

I forgot that.
Yeah, it doesn't have commentating.
It doesn't have it.

Yeah, because I think no mercy.
Does it does not, it does mercy.

Does not know.
So, that's the other thing I was sort of looking.
Does I forget which one?

I don't remember for
Wrestlemania.

Does World Tour did not?
But there might be or is there's one with j.r. and I was like oh
my God like right.

Like this is why I like playing
wrestling came to.

Yeah, here today.
Are you scream?

Yeah, I know it's tough.
Yeah.

I know.
Know know, yeah, 2000 might have it but but no mercy didn't.
So that's the thing, I kept comparing things to No Mercy
which I, you know, again is to me is like the Pinnacle one.
So it's sort of a hard comparison also came out like
three years two years after this one.
So it's Of course, they're going to advance it but I was a little
disappointed but again compared to No Mercy but like the sort of
like quote-unquote story or

Championship modes are just like
match after match after match whereas with no mercy.
It's literally like like a timeline where if you win you go
left, if you lose you go, right?

And it just goes back and forth
and it's like this story that you can unlock depending on how
you do and who you face and you know there's all these different
matches that are thrown into it.

There's like quote-unquote cut
scenes where the guys are chirping, each other and like,
all that stuff is so awesome and it changes when you win a
championship, the next time you go in, if you want to play as
someone else, you can fight the person that you just want.
As, or you can go and the story resets itself as the champion.
So there's like multiple layers to it.
So I expected like, like, maybe some cutscenes here and there,
between little bit of dialogue, but really, it's just like guy
after guy.

After guy comes out and
whatever.

It's funny because it just keeps
going like that.

That's, there's nothing wrong
with that, but but I was like, oh, I wish there was just like a
little bit more, because there's also no character creator to,
which kind of kind of sucks in a wrestling game.
That's, that's huge, I find, but it's also hard to give them too
hard of a time because of when this game came out and what
they're capable of fitting onto this cartridge.
So I you have to perfect the art a little bit, I think until you
get there.

So I'm not going to, I'm not
like Pissed about it.

I just didn't notice the
difference I guess is what I'm saying.
Now, it's fair and I think no mercy is very much a product of
what WWF was trying to do, which was the focus on the storyline.
Yeah, we're WCW was always about, just like the raw, I like
Talent, the rods just like fighting each other, which they
always said during the show's.

It's like, we're the best.
And like, well yeah, their ass.

And yeah, and you, you do feel
that like compared to No Mercy,

I think.
At least at the multiplayer is still better.
And Friends.

There is no mercy.
Yeah, because it just like, it's that pick-up-and-play, it's that
the fluidness of it.

It's hard to.
Like I was trying to think, like, I'm like, how can I word
this properly, because anything like what makes this actually
better, but I just think the fluidness of it.
The fact that you have like everyone in this roster here.
Yeah, the fact that like, for me, a big thing was, was going,
you know, to my friend's house when I was like, eight years
old, picking this up and playing it and never, having to having
played a wrestling game or something before this, and I
think that's a huge Thing.

Yeah, with this game is the fact
that you could have like your little cousin come over and play
this game and have a fun time.

It's an ease of use thing, like
it is, and it's a great game where it's easy to learn and
also, you know, hard to master, right?
Yeah.

And it gives that that level of
difficulty where it's okay.

Well, you know, I could like
screw around in the ring and I do some fun like high-flying
acts and I can go and like grab stuff from outside the ring and
hit people with it's like whatever.
That's the fun stuff that I can just like fool around with ya.
Then there's like the other level of like, okay, like I can
actually get pretty good with these characters.
I can get these combos down, I can get their moves.
I, they actually all have a lot of different moves.
Yes.

And finishers to, there's a huge
and again, 60 characters.

And they all have like, so many
different moves.

You're probably thinking of like
300 developed moves at this point that have to go into this
game.

So a lot of effort was spent on
actually, making them pretty true to themselves to.
Yes.

And that was like, for the time
The 98 like that's crazy.

Yeah.
It is it really is like it's like wrestling in any form.
A lot of it is the outrageous personalities.
If you don't have that with voiceover which they didn't or
couldn't do what the game or a series of these games, you got
to do that in some other way.

Whether it's the way they look
the way they move all of that stuff like has to add up to that
not only so you know who you are you can recognize them play your
favorite wrestler and everything but like just all of that sort
of And together is great.

I think you're right.
I think a lot of that goes a long way in the presentation.
Like, it doesn't mean that it's perfect, but it's like, it's it
has that feeling to it and it's hard to pinpoint exactly what it
is.

But it's definitely there in
this game.

And I wasn't the largest WCW
Watcher or fan at the time when this game particular came out.
But just as this was coming out in just after is, when I started
watching wrestling and being You know, huge fan of the rock and
all that kind of stuff like that was.
That's that's what I what I loved.
So also the way the game looks and feels is a big part as a
career just saying, but the graphics are something for sure
that you wanted to mention because I like it's a huge jump
in one year it is and it's like you know if anyone's listening
this and they were watching like footage or they like look back
on this game.

Like, you know, 25 years old.
So yeah, it looks rough 25 years later but at the time this was
crazy.

This was so realistic compared
to other wrestling games over out there.
Yeah, like World Tour.

I'm talking about revenge, so
World Tour, which is just a year.
I think you said the 11 months, but 11 months November, and then
October, it's like what?

And it's just like, yeah, the
faces are like melting like ride.
It look like like like crappy action figures.
So honestly, there was a couple guys Like like even like someone
like Ric Flair who is like very obviously Ric Flair just look
like you know they just smudged something on the screen and
we're just like sure he's got white blond hair, let's back
that he's wearing tights.

Sure let's say he's Ric Flair.
Yeah, I mean the moves made sense in both in World Tour,
he's not in Revenge but and what the moves that made sense, the
music can set all that stuff but like unless you knew who Ric
Flair was like you were just playing some guy.
Yeah, 100%.

Yeah and that's what's another
the crazy thing is the fact that they were able to develop the
graphics in less than a year to really stand out and and you
like like looking at it again it looks a little rough but you
know who everyone is.

Yeah.
Well, not like as soon as you see it as even in the ring, you
know, immediately you're like okay but like I know who that
is.

I know that's DDP like I yes I
know that's that's how can I know?
That's a Ray Mysterio.

Like it's yeah, it's easy to
kind of Point these guys out and even like And there's even like
a bit more complicated ones.

Like Sting, you know, he's gonna
have all his makeup and stuff on or like, no Burgers.
Like this.

Like, I don't like there's,
there's, there's a lot of effort that to have to go into this,
especially with the costumes to everyone has, at least two, or
maybe three, gosh, thanks.

I think to 24 is the at, like, I
think it's for, because it's like, some of them are just
color changes, and okay, that's fine.
You know, a lot of the characters in real life.
They did not necessarily change all that much.
But like, you know, a couple of them have a jacket on A couple
of them don't, you know, it's, but you can also go ahead and so
big one.

Like, that's the one.
I think.

I've, right, where the his
yellow jumpsuit, you know, his tights or whatever that he had
at like that.

That's this iconic.
Look, which is classic

Hulkamania look.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

So, and I think that was the
look, I picked every single time

I played as I know, that's the
thing.

I always have.
Go choose for certain characters, so I'm like, no, I
like this one.

No, I like this one.
I know that somebody typically were, but I don't care.
I like this one.

I'd same thing with no mercy.
I did the same thing all the time.
I was just like yeah you know if

I played a stone-cold I had the
best on every time as opposed to going with our statites or have
to have them that they have to have the knee brace.
Like he just you had to have that on right?
Like for what reason, I don't know, just because that's what I
thought I recognized.

Yeah.
And and and all of that though like its true, like everything
looks very polygonal and pixelated and you know, all of
that, sort of chunky, like everyone's very chunky, you
know, especially if you're a bigger guy like Goldberg Hogan,
you know, giant like Big Show.

All these guys Nash like all
these guys look very look, like like, literally like a, like a
polygon or a, you know, just a square, just sort of piled on
top of each other or whatever.

But it's okay.
Like it just, it gives them a distinct look and makes them
look big and buff and sort of, in their character and it again,
they get all those little details.
Right?

Sure.
They're pixelated, you know,

Goldbergs tattoos on his arms
and stuff like, yeah, they just look like Like sort of black
polygons and black pixels and everything but like you know
it's Goldberg because it just yeah stands like them.
He looks like them his face in

Revenge looks a lot more like
him.

So it's all of that stuff is
super fun night.

I love these red like these
wrestling games in general.

Are just I like that they're not
perfect with the way that they look honestly.
Like, I think that there's like a personality to that and as
like a little bit of a charm to it, you know, that imperfection
is something.

That there's something there.
I don't know what it is.

I know what the word is, but
there's something there.

Yeah, no, no charm.
Charm is the word for this game.

I think as a whole it's you
can't not have fun playing it.

Like you're never going to have
a bad time picking this game up no matter what mode you pick.
If there's there's the Monday

Night Raw obviously and they're
sold out.

There's superbrawl bash the
beach.

How is the beach?
- the beach is a fun one.

They're all fun and like honey.
Yeah, but it's just a fun game, and it's honestly, just looking
a wholesome good time for wrestling.
Yeah, it's seriously.

As it's like, I think it makes
it so good as well, thinking of it today because wrestling games
kind of suck.

Now, I am absolutely sad.
It's really hard to get a good one, man.
It really is.

It is, and it's, you know, some
people kind of say they're like, well, you know this, Game is so
good because it was, you know, very Arcadia, the time.
And that's like what you kind of like to play when it's the
arcade Enos of wrestling because that's what wrestling kind of
is.

Yeah.
But I would kind of disagree with that because this game
doesn't go fully that arkady sense.
I'm just like you bash people and they fall down and like it
just gonna go flying off the mat.
Yeah, there's like I was saying before their skill in it,
there's massive that you have to get into this case.
There's timing and everything to like, reversals and blocking and
all those, that's all timing, it's all about and Sort of
managing like where you going to do your damage to the guy's head
is arm as leg, like all those little things, it's easy to it
can be easier or easy ish to just stumble upon that.
But, that's a good thing, you know, he's do that by accident,
like, oh, he's holding his head now because I did a few, you
know, clothes lines or whatever it might be or Capaldi DTS or
sounds like, oh, okay.

Now, I understand that.
I could, I wonder if I could do that to the guys leg next match
and like, I think that's great.

I think, you know, there's a
visual aspect to that At that it's instant understanding.
Like you said, if you've never played this before or a game
like this, boom, you got it.

You look, you can get it in 5
minutes honestly.

Yeah, which is great.
And it's a big thing to look for me.
When I was a kid playing this, like I had played Street Fighter
and like, Soul Calibur.

And honestly, most of those
games, I just Button Mash, I kind of need some combos, but it
was mostly button mashing.

And this like, going back to it
again like this this week and playing it.
I was like Like yeah, I actually know how to use these controls.
Like I don't have this is a

Button Mash like meets it and I
remember what I'm doing here, that's a cool.
There's a there's a sense of

Pride with that to that.
Yeah.

It's like oh, what I'm doing is
actually like in, like like inflicting and like changing
what's going on on-screen instead of just like, mashing
building.

Oh, something happened.
He's down.

Yeah.
And there's something magic about that playing multiplayer,
too.

Because like I think I bet if me
and you sat down and person and played a one-on-one in this,
like we're playing We would be playing this mental game with
each other of like what move should I do next and everything?
I know that's a fighting game in general, like I get that but
like there's something about it with these because there's
something about the way that you grapple when you're going to
time to punch or kick when you might run, if you're gonna, you
know, turn the guy around, if you're going to him, when he's
on the ground, like, all those little things that come into
play and again, yes, fighting games have all aspects of that
in different ways, but like, I remember playing Lane this game
obvious for me was more so 2000 and no mercy.
But games like this, which very, very similar controls if not
exactly the same which by the way, this is what perfected it.
So you're not going to get no mercy, which I love without this
game.

So revenge is, is the, is this
the predecessor without this, you get none of that playing
against people and it being intense without us.
Actually, like, saying really anything to each other because
we were just showing Do it.

And I feel like if we sat down
and did it would be the same thing they'd be like, yeah,
yeah.

Fuck you.
I got together.

All right.
No.

Don't hold your head already
know.

Yeah.
Submit know every time.

Yeah.
It's pretty silly.

Meanwhile the palming it that's
that was the trick upon the the joystick.
You would get a faster.

Yeah.
So there you go.

Little trick.
If I don't speak it, This game up just mess around with a
joystick while you're on the ground.
If you're like, if it's one of those long 15-minute matches
which in these games is like pretty long.
That's that's, you gotta do.

Yeah.
I was surprised at how quick some of the match.
I felt like a lot was happening.

Then the match was over like,
oh, that was only six minutes so crazy.
Okay.

But it's fun because because
that that that flow like you were sort of explaining before
is there from start to finish.

So it's a pretty, it's pretty
solid in that way.

So I like that.
Anything we've missed about the game or games.
I don't know.

Look we got it.
We got most of the time most of it like you you kind of
mentioned the Cons with the fact that the championship wasn't
great in terms of just fighting everyone.
It's fun.

It just doesn't.
Yeah that's all yeah that's all that was one of my cards I had
here too.

Yeah I this was just because I
played Hogan a lot.

I always wished Hogan's
finishing move is the leg drop and some his little poke in the
eye thing.

Yeah.
That was a bit of A letdown for me because I really liked him
growing up.

Yeah, and the commentators, like
I said, I wish this game just had commentating, but, you know,
no games really had that kind of voice over at the time, so I get
it.

Yeah.
And even then it would probably pretty minimal and be pretty
repetitive after a while maybe when we were younger.
We wouldn't really care.

But like, what would they fit in
there?

Like 25 lines and like, that was
at sure, that's a good point.

So it's good point.
So it's fine and them.

You know what?
Oh, that's the other thing before you even start any
matches, I don't know if you were if you re watch the intro.
Of course, I did.

What in Joan.
It is.

Okay, so literally because I
like, yeah, because it's it's I mean I love the No Mercy one.
I love that song.

I Love The Way They sort of.
Like everything's so sort of

Dynamics and like, oh I I'm
curious I do not remember the

Revenge one at all.
I'm gonna I'm gonna watch this I sat there.
This thing is over five minutes long, it is so long.
It's a weird intro to because like at the intro, the intro
because it's like this pickup truck.
Coming along from Atlanta and it's I don't who's driving it.
But I know that's thing is they're saying is there with
with a burning barrels and yeah.

Yeah, like what?
And then just so good and then it goes for another four
minutes.

It's a crazy Sizzle reel.
Yeah, it's awesome.

It has like so many it goes on
for so long because like show all these different moves and
whatever.

And I'm not saying this is like
a - it's just, it's cool.

How they put such a big thing
together and really try to like, hype it up and whatever, and
then they, then they show like

NWO.
And then they show the different

WCW guys.
And, you know, I think they're trying to sort of like show the
story a little bit.

Yeah.
And then at the end you just get like the freeze frame of Hogan
and sting he's looking at each other like oh I want to see Them
just like punch each other or something.
But yeah it's but it's cool.

The music was fun.
Yeah yeah.

Yeah.
Just get you thinking to get you to play it.
Yeah, but it's like I know that

I know that.
No mercy.

One is at least a few minutes
long.

Maybe it is.
Also five minutes, I don't know, but I was sitting there going
like, this is, yeah, that's pumping me up.
I'm good?

Yeah, let's go for it and then I
looked at it.

I was like, holy shit.
That was almost six minutes ago.

And I saw that, that truck come
down the road.

Like, holy shit.
It was good though, man.

I love it.
They're having fun.

That to, right?
Like that's the thing, like, you could tell that the developers
are just like, all right, we're just gonna, we're gonna crush it
with this video.

We're just going to put some
awesome like rock sort of.

I don't even know what you would
describe that kind of music really, just get all.
Yeah, yeah, a new metal.

It's probably what it is.
Yeah, Nu metal with no lyrics.

Yeah, it's essentially what it
is.

All right?
So WCW games, I would say, if, if you have World Tour, Lying
around or C copy of it.

You'll have fun.
But honestly if you have a 64 in you want to pick up either of
the of these to WCW NWO games just search for Revenge.
Instead I would say I think that's that's the way to go and
every aspect of the game.

I think it's just an improvement
so it's worth the extra couple bucks.
It's worth the clearly legal download.
It's worth the going to search for it in your parents attic.
Like whatever revenge is awesome.
So Matt, thanks for suggesting the game.
These, these were only somewhat on my radar of like, oh, I got
to place a wrestling games mainly because I just want to
play, No Mercy, which is sitting behind me on the Shelf, but I
could do that anytime and whatever's, but it was fun to go
back and play this.

So as I've done with other
episodes, thanks for suggesting these games.
Thanks for suggesting Revenge was awesome to go back to it.
Yeah, of course.

I mean, I love to go back to WCW
in that time, it was, you know, it's a very much a time capsule
for me.

So yes.
It's good to Play It Again.

Awesome!
Awesome!

Alright, so one more time, if
you're listening to this before the spring comes around with
2023 or after we check your podcast feed.
Where is everyone finding your new stuff?
As well as the GameCube was cool podcast, which wrapped up in
2022.

Where's the new stuff going to
be found and slow going to be found on Spotify, on Apple
podcast on everything.

If you search, the GameCube was
cool.

Even in the distant future,
you'll still find us.

So there's no problem there.
So just search the game, keep his cool.
You'll The old GameCube episodes and you'll find some new stuff
that we're doing.

So yeah, pretty excited.
Amazing.

Well, thanks for coming on the
show, man.

And thank you, I'll be sure to
come you back.

Come, get you back on
considering you don't hate the

N64.
From what I was told from your co-host that, oh my God, I was
so it's all good.

So, thanks for coming on the
show, man.

Will talk to you soon and happy
wrestling.

I appreciate it.
Thanks Dave.

Thanks again for joining me on.
Remember, 64 level 21 is now behind us.
We all have some wrestling titles under our belts, or they
are our belts, or we've won the belt.
Something well belts and championships is in there
somewhere.

Either way, thanks again for
listening to the show.

Always feel free to give us a
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